now Peter Moore says Xbox 360 might get an external -Blu-Ray- drive add-on

[A***@gmail.com]

OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

http://www.xboxcircle.com/portal/content/view/949/55/

Moore Says 360 Could See Blu Ray Add On
Written by Sheeyt

Tuesday, 10 January 2006
Peter Moore sat down with the Japanese site ITmedia after CES to talk a
little bit about add on drives. With all the frenzied news about the
new format wars slowly building Microsoft feel they are sitting in a
good position to go either way.


At CES Microsoft announced an add on HD-DVD drive would be available
for Xbox 360 for movie viewing purposes only. However in the interview
Moore said that Microsoft would be more then willing to adopt a Blu-Ray
drive if HD-DVD should lose the format wars.

HD-DVD is clearly Microsofts first choice, but Moore said that the Xbox
360 can adopt to the dominat format since it will be an external drive.
Moore also said that he felt the PS3 will be held back by the limit of
Blu-Ray should HD-DVD win.

Moore also clearly stated that no plans exist for an Xbox 360 console
to ship with an internal HD-DVD drive.

[Chris F]

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

how is it silly? theyre covering all corners ffs

sure its daft them even bothering with an external drive at all imo,
but all he has said there is that if blu-ray "wins" there's every
chance they'll support it.

anyway, can i just say:

for fucks sake, its a disc drive, get fucking over it the lot of you
:)

[Cullen Skink]

Post by Chris F

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

how is it silly? theyre covering all corners ffs
sure its daft them even bothering with an external drive at all imo,
but all he has said there is that if blu-ray "wins" there's every
chance they'll support it.

It's silly becuase a lot of people who would have bought the HD-DVD disk
when it comes out may now wait and see which one wins the format wars. I
know I will because I can't afford to have to buy two drives. If he did
say that he has totally undermined the HD-DVD add on in my opinion.

[a]

Post by Cullen Skink

Post by Chris F

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

how is it silly? theyre covering all corners ffs
sure its daft them even bothering with an external drive at all imo,
but all he has said there is that if blu-ray "wins" there's every
chance they'll support it.

It's silly becuase a lot of people who would have bought the HD-DVD disk
when it comes out may now wait and see which one wins the format wars. I
know I will because I can't afford to have to buy two drives. If he did
say that he has totally undermined the HD-DVD add on in my opinion.

can you please remind me who won the war between +/- in dvd?r

[Chris F]

Post by a

Post by Cullen Skink

Post by Chris F

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

how is it silly? theyre covering all corners ffs
sure its daft them even bothering with an external drive at all imo,
but all he has said there is that if blu-ray "wins" there's every
chance they'll support it.

It's silly becuase a lot of people who would have bought the HD-DVD
disk when it comes out may now wait and see which one wins the format
wars. I know I will because I can't afford to have to buy two
drives. If he did say that he has totally undermined the HD-DVD add
on in my opinion.

can you please remind me who won the war between +/- in dvd?r

- i guess, as it seems to be the media more prominently available,
thought neither really "won" as such as most drives support both still.

not exactly the same sort of situation as blu-ray/hd-dvd though, the
closest comparison is VHS/BetaMAX as the +/- thing was just to do with
recordable versions of an established format.

[ScoopeX]

Post by a

Post by Cullen Skink

Post by Chris F

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

how is it silly? theyre covering all corners ffs
sure its daft them even bothering with an external drive at all imo,
but all he has said there is that if blu-ray "wins" there's every
chance they'll support it.

It's silly becuase a lot of people who would have bought the HD-DVD
disk when it comes out may now wait and see which one wins the format
wars. I know I will because I can't afford to have to buy two
drives. If he did say that he has totally undermined the HD-DVD add
on in my opinion.

can you please remind me who won the war between +/- in dvd?r

George Bush.

lol. :)

[Jeff Rife]

Post by a
can you please remind me who won the war between +/- in dvd?r

Other than the consumer, the "+" format was the winner in many ways.

"-R/RW" was designed with DVD player compatibility in mind from the start.
It wasn't perfect, but that's still different from "+R/RW", which was not
part of the "official" DVD spec track, so the fact that players and
recorders embraced it says it was worth the time/money to do so.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Chris F

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

how is it silly? theyre covering all corners ffs

It's silly because it's throwing confusion into the marketplace.

What is Microsoft's purpose for this external drive? Movies only?
Games? If the 360 is going to continually "change" like this, there's
certainly no reason to buy one now - unless you find the current game
library sufficient.

At least with most other consoles, there wasn't any major functional
differences between the model you saw on release day, and the final model
that comes out 4-5 years later. However, that isn't going to be the case
with the 360...

So, yes, I do think it's silly of Microsoft to do this, especially since
no release window has been mentioned. If I were Microsoft, I would have
held off on all announcements until I knew exactly what it was I was going
to do, and had units ready to hit store shelves within a month. As it
stands now, anyone who's a tech-savvy gamer is going to go back on the
fence about the 360. There's no reason buying hardware now when it's
possible that a better deck could be released later. Microsoft's just
made the 360's future too confusing and uncertain.

Microsoft should have just stuck to making this a GAMING machine. The
other stuff should have been marketed as a media center add-ons, with the
possibility of doing a "360 media center" bundle later on for the late
comers.

For me personally, I could care less about playing next-gen-DVD movies on
my game consoles. I, for one, will be buying a dedicated, separate player
for movies, rather than using a game console to do that.

[Jordan]

I don't think it's confusing the market when they've said the
attachment is plainly only for movies. It's just an add on, people are
getting way too worked up over it. I don't see it as being any
different than the Guitar Hero guitar, except that more media will end
up being playable on the HD-DVD drive than on a funky plastic guitar.

- Jordan

[H***@sympatico.ca]

IF the HD-DVD format fails, and IF the only way of watching higher
definition DVDs is through Blu-Ray, THEN an external Blu-Ray drive may
be developed, as some point after the external HD-DVD drive IS on the
market. Not exactly commital. And I'm guessing that the earliest that
may ever happen is after people are talking about Microsoft's third
gaming console, to compete with the PS4.

[Air Raid]

Microsoft will probably go with built-in, standard Blu-Ray for the
third-gen Xbox, the successor to the 360, around 2009-2010. Perhaps a
higher capacity variant of Blu-Ray. but It will be too soon for
Microsoft to use something total beyond Blu-Ray--unlike Sony, who will
not have PS4 out until 2012 at the soonest, and might have a
Holographic Disc format ready.

[H***@sympatico.ca]

Post by Air Raid
Microsoft will probably go with built-in, standard Blu-Ray for the
third-gen Xbox, the successor to the 360, around 2009-2010. Perhaps a
higher capacity variant of Blu-Ray. but It will be too soon for
Microsoft to use something total beyond Blu-Ray--unlike Sony, who will
not have PS4 out until 2012 at the soonest, and might have a
Holographic Disc format ready.

I hope you were trying to be sarcastic. Since the HD-DVD / Blu-Ray
format war hasn't officially started yet, with the cheapest Blu-Ray
player being the more expensive choice when it does, it might be a tad
early to call it the new standard. For all we know, it might be the
new UMD, as in "not really used outside of a Sony gaming device".

And for holographic discs? It'll likely be a big longer than 6 years
before it's used in a gaming console. Would you want to own a console,
whose games are on a format proven not to last more than a few years?
Because by then, there's no guarantee that whatever form that format
uses will be more reliable than that, if it does exist at all by then.

[Paul Smith]

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

How's that silly? I'll tell you what silly is locking yourself into one
corner like Sony are at the moment, when there is a much more
consumer-friendly format called HD-DVD which will put up one hell of a fight
it's not a wise move. Especially given their past record at format wars.

[Alastair Foster]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:03:01 -0000, "Paul Smith"

Post by Paul Smith

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

How's that silly? I'll tell you what silly is locking yourself into one
corner like Sony are at the moment, when there is a much more
consumer-friendly format called HD-DVD which will put up one hell of a fight
it's not a wise move. Especially given their past record at format wars.

But the PS3 is a huge coup for blu-ray. That baby will have a larger
install rate alone then every HD-DVD player sale combined.

[Air Raid]

so true. as much as I dislike Sony in many ways, this is true.

HD-DVD (aka AOD ~ Advanced Optical Disc) is DOA.

[Mark E. Smith]

Post by Paul Smith

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

How's that silly? I'll tell you what silly is locking yourself into one
corner like Sony are at the moment, when there is a much more
consumer-friendly format called HD-DVD which will put up one hell of a
fight it's not a wise move. Especially given their past record at format
wars.

What's silly is any idiot who buys an external drive for a gaming console
just to watch movies.
If you are going to buy an HD-DVD drive buy the stand alone player. Do NOT
lock yourself into
M$'s console life cycle. Come time that Xbox 3 comes out your current
external HD-DVD 360 accessory will be worth $10 on ebay. Meh.....

[Cullen Skink]

Post by Mark E. Smith

Post by Paul Smith

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

How's that silly? I'll tell you what silly is locking yourself into
one corner like Sony are at the moment, when there is a much more
consumer-friendly format called HD-DVD which will put up one hell of a
fight it's not a wise move. Especially given their past record at
format wars.

What's silly is any idiot who buys an external drive for a gaming
console just to watch movies.
If you are going to buy an HD-DVD drive buy the stand alone player. Do
NOT lock yourself into
M$'s console life cycle. Come time that Xbox 3 comes out your current
external HD-DVD 360 accessory will be worth $10 on ebay. Meh.....

It will still do what it was bought for though, ie play HD-DVD films. If
you're like me by the time the next XBox is out the 360 will be moved to
the spare room where it will continue to play games and if I'd bought the
add on, play HD DVD films. It's value is of little consequence if it
does what it is supposed to do.

[gerryR]

And come the time the 3rd xbox is out standalone hd-dvd drives will be going
for about $10 too !! so you're point is ???

Post by Cullen Skink

Post by Mark E. Smith

Post by Paul Smith

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft

How's that silly? I'll tell you what silly is locking yourself into one
corner like Sony are at the moment, when there is a much more
consumer-friendly format called HD-DVD which will put up one hell of a
fight it's not a wise move. Especially given their past record at
format wars.

What's silly is any idiot who buys an external drive for a gaming console
just to watch movies.
If you are going to buy an HD-DVD drive buy the stand alone player. Do
NOT lock yourself into
M$'s console life cycle. Come time that Xbox 3 comes out your current
external HD-DVD 360 accessory will be worth $10 on ebay. Meh.....

It will still do what it was bought for though, ie play HD-DVD films. If
you're like me by the time the next XBox is out the 360 will be moved to
the spare room where it will continue to play games and if I'd bought the
add on, play HD DVD films. It's value is of little consequence if it does
what it is supposed to do.

[Cullen Skink]

Post by gerryR
And come the time the 3rd xbox is out standalone hd-dvd drives will be
going for about $10 too !! so you're point is ???

DO NOT lock yourself into M$'s console life cycle. Come time that Xbox
3 comes out your current external HD-DVD 360 accessory will be worth
$10 on ebay. Meh.....

My point is that it doesn't matter how much the current add on is worth
then, it will still do what you bought it for so locking yourself into
the format doesn't matter. Assuming there end up being two successful
high capacity DVD formats.

[gerryR]

replied to the wrong post,sorry about that!

Post by Cullen Skink

Post by gerryR
And come the time the 3rd xbox is out standalone hd-dvd drives will be
going for about $10 too !! so you're point is ???

DO NOT lock yourself into M$'s console life cycle. Come time that Xbox 3
comes out your current external HD-DVD 360 accessory will be worth $10
on ebay. Meh.....

My point is that it doesn't matter how much the current add on is worth
then, it will still do what you bought it for so locking yourself into the
format doesn't matter. Assuming there end up being two successful high
capacity DVD formats.

[Cullen Skink]

Post by gerryR
replied to the wrong post,sorry about that!

no problem! :-)

[Luke Smith]

cant we just get guitar hero on 360 instead of this drive :)

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Cullen Skink
My point is that it doesn't matter how much the current add on is worth
then, it will still do what you bought it for so locking yourself into
the format doesn't matter. Assuming there end up being two successful
high capacity DVD formats.

There isn't room in the market for 2 next-gen DVD mediums. There's no way
consumers are going to bother with buying 2 different drives so they can
watch some titles on one, and other titles on the other. Even if a given
title is released in both formats, you're just going to increase your
manufacturing costs and sell fewer discs, meaning your retail price will
also be higher.

If both standards hit the market, I'll just wait until we start seeing
"play-it-all" models that are compatible with both formats. Note that
this will make both the PS3 and 360 useless for playing movies in my
opinion since they'll only be able to handle *one* format, buying 2 game
consoles to play movies is just a silly idea.

[Cullen Skink]

In alt.games.video.xbox Cullen Skink

Post by Cullen Skink
My point is that it doesn't matter how much the current add on is worth
then, it will still do what you bought it for so locking yourself into
the format doesn't matter. Assuming there end up being two successful
high capacity DVD formats.

There isn't room in the market for 2 next-gen DVD mediums. There's no way
consumers are going to bother with buying 2 different drives so they can
watch some titles on one, and other titles on the other. Even if a given
title is released in both formats, you're just going to increase your
manufacturing costs and sell fewer discs, meaning your retail price will
also be higher.

I'm guesing that if they are both big sellers then the market might be
big enough on each to make it worthwhile for the movie companies to
release on both. It would be much better with one standard though.

[Chris F]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:55:46 GMT, "Cullen Skink"

Post by Cullen Skink

In alt.games.video.xbox Cullen Skink

Post by Cullen Skink
My point is that it doesn't matter how much the current add on is worth
then, it will still do what you bought it for so locking yourself into
the format doesn't matter. Assuming there end up being two successful
high capacity DVD formats.

There isn't room in the market for 2 next-gen DVD mediums. There's no way
consumers are going to bother with buying 2 different drives so they can
watch some titles on one, and other titles on the other. Even if a given
title is released in both formats, you're just going to increase your
manufacturing costs and sell fewer discs, meaning your retail price will
also be higher.

I'm guesing that if they are both big sellers then the market might be
big enough on each to make it worthwhile for the movie companies to
release on both. It would be much better with one standard though.

the market won't be able to sustain two formats in such a mainstream
media. sooner or later, a couple of years down the line, one will be
more popular for one reason or another and you'll start to see the
other dwindle away.

thats if either really takes off straight away, which theres a high
chance they won't as the majority of the public wont have a tv set to
get the best out of the higher resolutions offered until tv prices
become more reasonable.

[Jonathan GREENWOOD]

Post by Chris F
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:55:46 GMT, "Cullen Skink"

Post by Cullen Skink

In alt.games.video.xbox Cullen Skink

Post by Cullen Skink
My point is that it doesn't matter how much the current add on is worth
then, it will still do what you bought it for so locking yourself into
the format doesn't matter. Assuming there end up being two successful
high capacity DVD formats.

There isn't room in the market for 2 next-gen DVD mediums. There's no way
consumers are going to bother with buying 2 different drives so they can
watch some titles on one, and other titles on the other. Even if a given
title is released in both formats, you're just going to increase your
manufacturing costs and sell fewer discs, meaning your retail price will
also be higher.

I'm guesing that if they are both big sellers then the market might be
big enough on each to make it worthwhile for the movie companies to
release on both. It would be much better with one standard though.

the market won't be able to sustain two formats in such a mainstream
media. sooner or later, a couple of years down the line, one will be
more popular for one reason or another and you'll start to see the
other dwindle away.
thats if either really takes off straight away, which theres a high
chance they won't as the majority of the public wont have a tv set to
get the best out of the higher resolutions offered until tv prices
become more reasonable.
--
gamertag: Chrisflynnuk
http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk

you don't think that this time round the players will probably play both
kinds as I assume the technology is similar, and the discs will probably
carry both versions of the film. I'm not technical but surely this is
possible and therefore would negate any need to choose "format". This isn't
a format change really because the disc is still the same size, why can't
both blueray and hd-dvd be on the same disc 25gb is easily more than enough
for any film so 2 on one disc should be easy.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Jonathan GREENWOOD
you don't think that this time round the players will probably play both
kinds as I assume the technology is similar, and the discs will probably
carry both versions of the film. I'm not technical but surely this is
possible and therefore would negate any need to choose "format". This isn't
a format change really because the disc is still the same size, why can't
both blueray and hd-dvd be on the same disc 25gb is easily more than enough
for any film so 2 on one disc should be easy.

It's certainly possible that you could create a DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drive.
Of course, such a thing would be very very expensive as you're looking at
2 separate mechanisms and 2 very expensive lasers.

Why even have a combo drive for movies though? It's not a movie on a
HD-DVD disc is going to look any different than one on a Blu-Ray disc.
The only real differences in the formats is with capacity and DRM.
Capacity won't be an issue really until we start seeing burnable versions
of the media and even then, both standards have announced the ability to
produce larger capacity discs.

Personally, I think the studios and manufacturers would be insane to
produce movies or players until the standard is decided. After all, who'd
want to spend ~$500-800 on a player that could literally end up being the
Beta player of the 21st century? At least Beta VCRs were still usable
since they could record. But a player that supports a dead standard is
going to be pretty useless.

And this doesn't even address the fact that most people won't even have
the equipment to take advantage of HD movies in the first place. Heck,
most people still have their DVD player connected to their TV with
composite video or, god forbid, RFU.... I suspect this is one of the
reasons that the format war has been dragging on as long as it has been.
Joe Consumer isn't pressuring the market for a new DVD format.

[Chris F]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:43:31 +0000 (UTC), "Jonathan GREENWOOD"

Post by Jonathan GREENWOOD
you don't think that this time round the players will probably play both
kinds as I assume the technology is similar, and the discs will probably
carry both versions of the film. I'm not technical but surely this is
possible and therefore would negate any need to choose "format". This isn't
a format change really because the disc is still the same size, why can't
both blueray and hd-dvd be on the same disc 25gb is easily more than enough
for any film so 2 on one disc should be easy.

sure, i imagine it would be possible to produce a dual-format drive,
but prohibitively expensive at the start, as the manufacturers would
have to license both technologies, which would in turn drive the cost
to the consumer up even further.

however, i dont even know if it would be possible to have dual-format
discs. i'd imagine not due to the way the differing drives would
access the data, unless they made the discs double-sided, but we can
all agree how awful dual-sided dvd's are, i imagine.

as doug says in his other post, the other problem they have is that
there is no real clamour for a new, improved dvd format from the
general public, a lot of people are only just now getting fully into
dvd itself as a full blown home video format, rather than a nice
little novelty to have alongside a VCR.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Mark E. Smith
What's silly is any idiot who buys an external drive for a gaming console
just to watch movies.

I'd guess that once the external drive is relased, it wouldn't be long
before you say a new 360 with just the next-gen drive. But even then, the
only way this makes sense is if the total cost is much lower than the
initial stand-alone players.

Post by Mark E. Smith
If you are going to buy an HD-DVD drive buy the stand alone player. Do NOT
lock yourself into
M$'s console life cycle. Come time that Xbox 3 comes out your current
external HD-DVD 360 accessory will be worth $10 on ebay. Meh.....

Well, it's not like your existing hardware suddenly stops working when the
next gen is released.

However, based on comparisons of the PS2 and Xbox's DVD capabilities
against similarly-priced standalone players at the same cost, the
standalone players rated better. So I can't see anyone wanting to buy
either the PS3 or 360 just for their next-gen DVD capabilities.

At least Sony can use blu-ray discs for games, whereas 360 developers have
been complaining that DVD is already too small. If Microsoft decides to
let developers use the new drive for games, then they're going to greatly
annoy the early adopters, not to mention making the market more gunshy
about buying Microsoft's stuff in the future (just ask Sega about this.)

[blankoboy]

Here's my bold prediction:

The "next next generation" will not depend on ANY optical media drive and
may only contain one for perhaps legacy support (CD ripping, etc).

By the time these console make there way to consumers, all games and media
content will
be available by download only (steam like model). We are talking 2009-2010
timeframe here.

By this time the US/Canada will have perhaps caught up to Japan/S.Korea in
terms of broadband and also HDD capacities will be trivial.

So, picture an XBox3, PS4, Revolution2 with the following:

- no optical media drive necessary
- 500-1000 GB HDD.
- 20GB Nand flash.
- Gigabit Ethernet.
- Bittorrent like network support in firmware.

All media content (games, music, movies) will be stored encrypted on the HDD
and can only be unlocked by your user account which can only be logged into
from one machine at any given time.

This would mean then that you can go to your friend's house and log into
this machine with your ID and play all your games, music, movies from his
place once they have been cached on this HDD.

This WILL be the way it works come next gen. Trust me....

/gets back into the Delorean......


non-related Hardware speculation

POSSIBILITY #1

- 1-2 GB main memory
- 1 GB graphics memory
- 5 Ghz CPU quad core CPU
- quad GPU with 64MB e-DRAM

POSSIBILITY #2

- dumb (thin) client
- all processing done by thermonuclear master server farm.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by blankoboy
By this time the US/Canada will have perhaps caught up to Japan/S.Korea in
terms of broadband and also HDD capacities will be trivial.

Considering how screwed up the broadband market is in the US, with its
ties to politics and broken corporations, I wouldn't count on it...

Post by blankoboy
- no optical media drive necessary
- 500-1000 GB HDD.
- 20GB Nand flash.
- Gigabit Ethernet.
- Bittorrent like network support in firmware.

Gigabit ethernet is going to be a waste unless you think we'll be doing

Post by blankoboy
100Mbps to the house.
All media content (games, music, movies) will be stored encrypted on the HDD
and can only be unlocked by your user account which can only be logged into
from one machine at any given time.

What's to stop people from hacking the key and making the encryption
scheme moot?

My guess is that they'd want your console to 'phone home' each time you
wanted to access something. Sure, if you've got reliable, ubiquitous,
fast broadband connections, this isn't a problem. Right now, however,
broadband is barely available in 50% of the US, and most companies still
have trouble with that "reliability" thing.

Post by blankoboy
This would mean then that you can go to your friend's house and log into
this machine with your ID and play all your games, music, movies from his
place once they have been cached on this HDD.
This WILL be the way it works come next gen. Trust me....

Hahahaha. So you'll have to suck down a new copy to your friend's
system? And then how do you get your data to/from your system? Or, is
everything just stored on the serverside - games, your saves, your music,
your videos, etc.?

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Paul Smith
How's that silly? I'll tell you what silly is locking yourself into one
corner like Sony are at the moment, when there is a much more
consumer-friendly format called HD-DVD which will put up one hell of a fight
it's not a wise move. Especially given their past record at format wars.

Sony's situation is a little different.

Blu-Ray is their own standard, so of course they're going to push it.
Second, even if Blu-Ray doesn't win the next-gen-DVD war, they'll still be
using it for games - something that Microsoft has not commented one way or
another yet.

If Microsoft isn't going to use the add-on drive for games, then I have to
wonder what the point is. The add-on drive is going to be be 80-90% of a
standalone player and will most likely cost about as much as one.

If we assume that standalone players will cost between $400-800 for an
entry level player, I have to wonder who's going to bother buying a 360 as a
"cheap" next-gen DVD player. Sony's strategy of making the PS2 a "cheap"
DVD player gave them some leverage over other game consoles AND DVD
players at the time. I'm speculating that Sony plans to try to do the
same thing with the PS3 if they can keep the pricing between $400-500, it
would certainly be an attractive alternative as an entry-level player *IF*
blu-ray wins the format war. Microsoft, meanwhile, wants to offer its
next-gen DVD as an add-on. Problem is, you'll have to spend at least $300
to just get the console, and then get the add-on drive which looks like
it's going to cost at least $200-300 - making the
360-as-a-low-cost-next-gen-player a dubious choice.

[Skykid]

This is incredibly stupid as there will not be room for two formats. One
will win. Everyday Microsoft continues to pump out these types of
statements shows they really do not have a good understanding of this
market and they do not have a solid plan to support the next gen high
def market.

Regards,
SK

Right now, it seems that Microsoft's plain is "Lets support everything!".

Post by A***@gmail.com
OMFG....LMFAO.... this is incredibly silly of Microsoft
http://www.xboxcircle.com/portal/content/view/949/55/
Moore Says 360 Could See Blu Ray Add On
Written by Sheeyt
Tuesday, 10 January 2006
Peter Moore sat down with the Japanese site ITmedia after CES to talk a
little bit about add on drives. With all the frenzied news about the
new format wars slowly building Microsoft feel they are sitting in a
good position to go either way.
At CES Microsoft announced an add on HD-DVD drive would be available
for Xbox 360 for movie viewing purposes only. However in the interview
Moore said that Microsoft would be more then willing to adopt a Blu-Ray
drive if HD-DVD should lose the format wars.
HD-DVD is clearly Microsofts first choice, but Moore said that the Xbox
360 can adopt to the dominat format since it will be an external drive.
Moore also said that he felt the PS3 will be held back by the limit of
Blu-Ray should HD-DVD win.
Moore also clearly stated that no plans exist for an Xbox 360 console
to ship with an internal HD-DVD drive.

[Jordan]

How long is it going to take for a winner to emerge between Blu-Ray and
HD-DVD? The longer it goes on the worse and more confusing it will be
for everyone. If it takes more than a year to sort out then they might
as well support both formats, there will be enough media to make either
worthwhile and because it's an external drive it doesn't harm the
underlying 360 infrastructure to go with both.

DVDs for games, HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray for movies. It's going to be
interesting that's for sure.

- Jordan

[Jonathan GREENWOOD]

Post by Jordan
How long is it going to take for a winner to emerge between Blu-Ray and
HD-DVD? The longer it goes on the worse and more confusing it will be
for everyone. If it takes more than a year to sort out then they might
as well support both formats, there will be enough media to make either
worthwhile and because it's an external drive it doesn't harm the
underlying 360 infrastructure to go with both.
DVDs for games, HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray for movies. It's going to be
interesting that's for sure.
- Jordan

so what we've decided is that this add on's success will be decided on the
price it costs and the software available. Bear in mind that DVD got very
cheap very quick so its not totally out of the question that this add on
will be expensive. Tosh and co will be making good margin on their first
attempts. However I don't think dvd has had its day yet, people like it. To
the average punter these new discs are going to look very similar and won't
be the generation leap they had with vhs/dvd. It doesn't look like a totally
new format. The closest analagy I can make is to philips now defunct DCC
when apparently we were going from cassette to dcc. Also it won't be
recordable for a while but that probably doesn't matter these days.

Either way I'm a typical early adopter and I can't get excited about either
of these new formats.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Jonathan GREENWOOD
Either way I'm a typical early adopter and I can't get excited about either
of these new formats.

The formats are interesting, what's being put on them isn't. Remember
how everyone was whining and complaining about U.S. box office in 2005?
Those are the movies that are going to be released on HD-DVD and
Blu-Ray.

I can't imagine people lining up to blow $1000 on a player for Dukes of
Hazzard or Into the Blue. The studios need to focus on HD versions of
the titles that made DVD a hit. The first Matrix flick for example.

OTOH then you run into the whole "I bought it once, I'm not buying it
again, my DVD looks fine." argument.

That being said, whichever format gets the Blade Runner special edition
or the complete Max Headroom will be the one that I run out and buy.
:^)

- Jordan

[Tim Bird]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Jonathan GREENWOOD
Either way I'm a typical early adopter and I can't get excited about either
of these new formats.

The formats are interesting, what's being put on them isn't. Remember
how everyone was whining and complaining about U.S. box office in 2005?
Those are the movies that are going to be released on HD-DVD and
Blu-Ray.
I can't imagine people lining up to blow $1000 on a player for Dukes of
Hazzard or Into the Blue. The studios need to focus on HD versions of
the titles that made DVD a hit. The first Matrix flick for example.
OTOH then you run into the whole "I bought it once, I'm not buying it
again, my DVD looks fine." argument.
That being said, whichever format gets the Blade Runner special edition
or the complete Max Headroom will be the one that I run out and buy.
:^)

Max Headroom... n.n.n.n.niiiiice !!!!

Post by j***@gmail.com
- Jordan

[Izzy Mandelbaum]

Post by j***@gmail.com
The formats are interesting, what's being put on them isn't.

The same can be said of "next-gen" consoles. What diff does it make
what the 360/PS3 is/isn't capable of when you're staring a shitty game
in the face?

[Jonathan GREENWOOD]

Post by Izzy Mandelbaum

Post by j***@gmail.com
The formats are interesting, what's being put on them isn't.

The same can be said of "next-gen" consoles. What diff does it make
what the 360/PS3 is/isn't capable of when you're staring a shitty game
in the face?

I think the games are doing better than the films got 5 games for my 360 and
they are all good with pdz being the weakest link in my opinion. Hollywood
hasn't produced anything decent recently to hold my interest though. Best
film I seen in recent years was shaun of the dead and thats a uk flick.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Skykid
This is incredibly stupid as there will not be room for two formats. One
will win. Everyday Microsoft continues to pump out these types of
statements shows they really do not have a good understanding of this
market and they do not have a solid plan to support the next gen high
def market.

Seems there are too many voices speaking at Microsoft.

Microsoft has said they're behind HD-DVD.

Microsoft also has said they want to do something with next-gen DVD and
the 360.

So when Microsoft said they were going to release an external HD-DVD drive
for the 360, that makes sense.

However, now Microsoft has said they might release an external blu-ray
drive...


Obviously Microsoft is in the position to be able to choose which format
they wish to support. It makes no sense for them to push HD-DVD on the
360 if Blu-Ray ends up being used for movies. It could be that we could
end up with one format for movies, and another format for data. It'd
be...messy...but certainly is possible.

At any rate, given the series of announcements from Microsoft, I think
it's safe to say that unless there are 360 games you just gotta play NOW,
you're better off waiting 6, to 12 months to see what exactly Microsoft is
going to do to the 360. I can only assume that when they release this
external add-on drive that we'll see a revamped 360 with the new drive - and
at the same pricepoint we have now. (compare to what Sony did with the
network adaptor.) This will also give developers time to release more
games - always a good thing :)

Of course, now I have to wonder just how many consoles Microsoft will
actually sell between now and June or now and Thanksgiving.

Were I Microsoft, I wouldn't have said anything about this add-on drive
unless I had units ready to ship. You never talk about your next product
unless you're ready to ship it. Otherwise, people will figure why bother
buying now, when the newer version is just around the corner and wait.

[Skykid]

Post by Doug Jacobs

Post by Skykid
This is incredibly stupid as there will not be room for two formats. One
will win. Everyday Microsoft continues to pump out these types of
statements shows they really do not have a good understanding of this
market and they do not have a solid plan to support the next gen high
def market.

Seems there are too many voices speaking at Microsoft.
Microsoft has said they're behind HD-DVD.
Microsoft also has said they want to do something with next-gen DVD and
the 360.
So when Microsoft said they were going to release an external HD-DVD drive
for the 360, that makes sense.
However, now Microsoft has said they might release an external blu-ray
drive...
Obviously Microsoft is in the position to be able to choose which format
they wish to support. It makes no sense for them to push HD-DVD on the
360 if Blu-Ray ends up being used for movies. It could be that we could
end up with one format for movies, and another format for data. It'd
be...messy...but certainly is possible.

You do understand that every time Microsoft sells a Blu-ray drive, Sony
will be ringing the register. Sony helped develop the Blu-ray standard
and will see monetary compensation in the form of technology license
with each Blu-ray drive sold. Which is why Microsoft put their support
early on for the HD-DVD format. I think Microsoft are now seeing that
major movie studio's have announced support for Blu-ray and must do
something to insure they have Blu-ray support on the Xbox 360.

It really is a screwed up approach for the product.

Regards,
SK

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Skykid
You do understand that every time Microsoft sells a Blu-ray drive, Sony
will be ringing the register. Sony helped develop the Blu-ray standard
and will see monetary compensation in the form of technology license
with each Blu-ray drive sold. Which is why Microsoft put their support
early on for the HD-DVD format. I think Microsoft are now seeing that
major movie studio's have announced support for Blu-ray and must do
something to insure they have Blu-ray support on the Xbox 360.

I'm aware that Sony would profit from Microsoft selling Blu-Ray drives for
movies, just as Sony makes some money each time Microsoft sells a DVD
remote kit for their Xbox.

Of course, Microsoft is only a supporter of HD-DVD - they didn't help
develop it either, so if HD-DVD wins, they'll still be paying someone to
license the technology.

Either way, it's apparent that Microsoft wants their 360 to play movies
relased on the next generation of DVD. So they'll have to pay regardless.

Post by Skykid
It really is a screwed up approach for the product.

Yes, but not because of the royality issue.

[Cullen Skink]

Post by Doug Jacobs

Post by Skykid
You do understand that every time Microsoft sells a Blu-ray drive, Sony
will be ringing the register. Sony helped develop the Blu-ray standard
and will see monetary compensation in the form of technology license
with each Blu-ray drive sold. Which is why Microsoft put their support
early on for the HD-DVD format. I think Microsoft are now seeing that
major movie studio's have announced support for Blu-ray and must do
something to insure they have Blu-ray support on the Xbox 360.

I'm aware that Sony would profit from Microsoft selling Blu-Ray drives for
movies, just as Sony makes some money each time Microsoft sells a DVD
remote kit for their Xbox.
Of course, Microsoft is only a supporter of HD-DVD - they didn't help
develop it either, so if HD-DVD wins, they'll still be paying someone to
license the technology.

That's interesting I didn't know that, I thoguht they were closely tied
with it. I wonder then are they supporting it simply because it is in
competition with Sony's next gen DVD technology and hence trying to
undermine PS3 rather than because they think it is the better format?

[MS]

Both HD-DVD and BD have mandatory support for VC1 (which is Microsoft's
video codec), so each HD-DVD or BD player sold will make a small amount of $
for MS anyway...

[Mustafa]

Post by Doug Jacobs
I can only assume that when they release this
external add-on drive that we'll see a revamped 360 with the new drive - and
at the same pricepoint we have now. .

Why would you assume this, Microsoft has already said they won't be doing
this, it will be an external upgrade only.
Personally, I couldn't care less what they release, I bought my 360 to play
games on and nothing else. As for Blu-Ray or HD-dvd I'm not interested in
either until it's decided which is the dominant format, the public has
accepted the format and prices have dropped to a reasonable level, then I
will get a dedicated external player.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Mustafa

Post by Doug Jacobs
I can only assume that when they release this
external add-on drive that we'll see a revamped 360 with the new drive - and
at the same pricepoint we have now. .

Why would you assume this, Microsoft has already said they won't be doing
this, it will be an external upgrade only.

I'm comparing it to the network adaptor for the PS2. It was initially
released as something you had to purchase separately, but was later
included with it, and now is built into the latest model.

If Microsoft really wants the 360 to be taken seriously as a next-gen
media center, it would make sense for them to do something similar with
the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray drive. That way, earlier customers could still buy
the drive, but later customers would automatically get it. Sure, you may
not care about using your 360 as a movie player, but Microsoft is banking
on the fact that there is a market that wants a combo game/movie machine.

Like Sony, Microsoft could wait for manufacturing costs to drop, include
the drive, and keep the price of the 360 the same ("Now with HD DVD
capability!" the box would exclaim...) After all, by that time, the PS3
will probably still cost more than even the 360 Premium kit. And when the
PS3 finally dropped in price, Microsoft, too, would be able to do the same
even with the newer drive included.

Otherwise, if they keep it as an add-on, no one will buy it. Current
speculation is that such an external drive is going to require to have not
just the drive mechanism, but also the newer, expensive decoder chips as
well, meaning that the external drive is going to cost nearly as much as
a standalone drive. Even as prices drop, I doubt we'll see this thing drop
below the pricepoint of a low end, standalone player. This would make the
360 a poor choice as a movie player. For the same cost of the external
add-on, you could get a better standalone player.

[Eiji Hayashi]

Post by Doug Jacobs

Post by Skykid
This is incredibly stupid as there will not be room for two formats. One
will win. Everyday Microsoft continues to pump out these types of
statements shows they really do not have a good understanding of this
market and they do not have a solid plan to support the next gen high
def market.

Seems there are too many voices speaking at Microsoft.
Microsoft has said they're behind HD-DVD.
Microsoft also has said they want to do something with next-gen DVD and
the 360.
So when Microsoft said they were going to release an external HD-DVD drive
for the 360, that makes sense.
However, now Microsoft has said they might release an external blu-ray
drive...

I suspect Microsoft's reason behind their announcement that they are
going to sell an external HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive is strictly one of PR. I
don't think they honestly expect many people to buy one. It's strictly
just so that they can prevent Sony from claiming that the PS3 is the
only console that support next-gen media. Add-ons don't sell very much,
that's something that has been proven throughout the history of
consoles, particular an add-on which does nothing to enhence the core
capability of the console, that is, to play games.

[Robert P Holley]

Post by Eiji Hayashi

Post by Doug Jacobs

Post by Skykid
This is incredibly stupid as there will not be room for two formats. One
will win. Everyday Microsoft continues to pump out these types of
statements shows they really do not have a good understanding of this
market and they do not have a solid plan to support the next gen high
def market.

Seems there are too many voices speaking at Microsoft.
Microsoft has said they're behind HD-DVD.
Microsoft also has said they want to do something with next-gen DVD and
the 360.
So when Microsoft said they were going to release an external HD-DVD drive
for the 360, that makes sense.
However, now Microsoft has said they might release an external blu-ray
drive...

I suspect Microsoft's reason behind their announcement that they are
going to sell an external HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive is strictly one of PR. I
don't think they honestly expect many people to buy one. It's strictly
just so that they can prevent Sony from claiming that the PS3 is the
only console that support next-gen media. Add-ons don't sell very much,
that's something that has been proven throughout the history of
consoles, particular an add-on which does nothing to enhence the core
capability of the console, that is, to play games.

I agree. The PS2 HDD was just the latest example of a failed add-on.

[l***@mcmaster.ca]

Post by Robert P Holley

Post by Eiji Hayashi
I suspect Microsoft's reason behind their announcement that they are
going to sell an external HD-DVD/Blu-ray drive is strictly one of PR. I
don't think they honestly expect many people to buy one. It's strictly
just so that they can prevent Sony from claiming that the PS3 is the
only console that support next-gen media. Add-ons don't sell very much,
that's something that has been proven throughout the history of
consoles, particular an add-on which does nothing to enhence the core
capability of the console, that is, to play games.

I agree. The PS2 HDD was just the latest example of a failed add-on.

The HD isn't an add-on, it's a peripheral that comes with a game, much
like the controller for Steel Battalion. I don't believe they ever sold
the HD separately, except in Japan, where the HD actually sold fairly
well.. because there were alot more games that supported it.

[w***@gmail.com]

well