Recording HD

[r***@optonline.net]

Will it ever be technically possible to record HDTV to DVD on the fly like we
used to do with VHS? Or transfer HDTV programs from the cable box/Tivo to a DVD
in hidef?

[G-squared]

Post by r***@optonline.net
Will it ever be technically possible to record HDTV to DVD on the fly like we
used to do with VHS? Or transfer HDTV programs from the cable box/Tivo to a DVD
in hidef?

Not exactly. DVD is limited to 4.7 GB and is std def. A hidef file
can be stored on a DVD and played on a PC but not on a standalone DVD
player. Can you record straight to BluRay? Not sure but you can record
HD to the hard drive in a PC using a TV tuner. The HD file can be made
into a BluRay disc. That I have done successfully.

G²

[Mike S.]

Post by r***@optonline.net

Post by r***@optonline.net
Will it ever be technically possible to record HDTV to DVD on the fly like we
used to do with VHS? Or transfer HDTV programs from the cable box/Tivo

to a DVD

Post by r***@optonline.net
in hidef?

Not exactly. DVD is limited to 4.7 GB and is std def. A hidef file
can be stored on a DVD and played on a PC but not on a standalone DVD
player. Can you record straight to BluRay? Not sure but you can record
HD to the hard drive in a PC using a TV tuner. The HD file can be made
into a BluRay disc. That I have done successfully.

Standalone video BD recorders exist, and are available in Japan.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by r***@optonline.net
Will it ever be technically possible to record HDTV to DVD on the fly like we
used to do with VHS? Or transfer HDTV programs from the cable box/Tivo to a DVD
in hidef?

It's been possible for some time, and I can do it right now if I want.

I use Windows Media Center and have created a dedicated standalone HD
DVR that just sits there and works, and which lets me do exactly what
you describe.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by r***@optonline.net
Will it ever be technically possible to record HDTV to DVD on the fly like we
used to do with VHS? Or transfer HDTV programs from the cable
box/Tivo to a
DVD
in hidef?

It's been possible for some time, and I can do it right now if I want.
I use Windows Media Center and have created a dedicated standalone HD
DVR that just sits there and works, and which lets me do exactly what
you describe.

7 Media Center works well enough for me. Two USB tuners receiving
1080i from an antenna don't overload a 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo. I started
with Hauppauge's crappy proprietary recording program on a 2.4GHz
Pentium which was barely adequate. 7MC is supposedly the best of a bad
selection of Windows TV software. It's timed recording feature seems
solid when I tested it from Sleep, but I couldn't make it power up
from Off. The menus and Help are poor, who would guess that you
manually add channels the autoscan can't detect from "Guide"?

My 1080i recordings take up 6.5 - 8 GB per hour, more than a single
layer DVD can hold. Star Trek from Boston's Channel 5.2 takes 1.1 to
1.6GB per episode, so 3 or 4 episodes will fit a single-layer DVD.
Recordings from the .2 subchannel of PBS which I think are 720p are in
the same size range. A 2 hour Tanglewood concert is 2.5GB.

7 Media Center creates .wtv files that it (7) or the VLC player (7,
XP) can play back. Media Center is an extra-cost option for Windows 8.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs

Assuming that a 2TB drive costs $100 and you need a backup because
everyone's large drives have a significant failure rate, storing
1000/6.5~=150 hours of 1080i costs $100, or $0.66 per hour. That makes
dual-layer DVDs that hold one hour of 1080i competitive only when they
are on sale, if you don't count your time including checking them for
errors afterwards. AFAICT the best are Verbatim Azo DVD+R DL which
normally cost over $1 each. Even with them I had to sacrifice a few to
find a DVD burner that makes error-free recordings, as shown by a
smooth transfer rate line on the Nero 6 quality test.
jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

...Star Trek from Boston's Channel 5.2 takes 1.1 to 1.6GB per
episode, so 3 or 4 episodes will fit a single-layer DVD. Recordings
from the .2 subchannel of PBS which I think are 720p are in the same
size range. A 2 hour Tanglewood concert is 2.5GB....
jsw

My real HDTV indicates that those channels are 480 I.
jsw

[Patty Winter]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by r***@optonline.net
Will it ever be technically possible to record HDTV to DVD on the fly like we
used to do with VHS? Or transfer HDTV programs from the cable box/Tivo to a DVD
in hidef?

It's been possible for some time, and I can do it right now if I want.
I use Windows Media Center and have created a dedicated standalone HD
DVR that just sits there and works, and which lets me do exactly what
you describe.

And then how do you get your HD shows to DVD as the OP requested?
Do they even fit on a DVD? Wouldn't you need a Blu-Ray recorder?


Patty

[G-squared]

Post by Patty Winter

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by r***@optonline.net
Will it ever be technically possible to record HDTV to DVD on the fly like we
used to do with VHS? Or transfer HDTV programs from the cable box/Tivo to a DVD
in hidef?

It's been possible for some time, and I can do it right now if I want.
I use Windows Media Center and have created a dedicated standalone HD
DVR that just sits there and works, and which lets me do exactly what
you describe.

And then how do you get your HD shows to DVD as the OP requested?
Do they even fit on a DVD? Wouldn't you need a Blu-Ray recorder?
Patty

It depends. In the early days Fox ran 8 megabits (they've been
consistently at 15 MBits for several years in LA) and a 1 hour show
with the spots cut out was about 3 GBytes. ABC in LA runs low rates
like Fox used to and 42 minutes is under 3 GBytes. 42 minutes on Fox
in LA is 4.5 GBytes. NBC LA is around 4.3 GBytes for 42 minutes. KCBS
LA is around 5.4 GBytes for 42 minutes so many 1'hour' shows will fit
in a DVD but being HD obviously will not play in a standard DVD player
but can be played in a PC. If you're looking to simply keep HD shows a
3 TB USB drive will hold a LOT of TV. My last 3TB drive from Fry's was
$99. That's less than 3.5 cents per GByte.

G²

[Ant]

Post by G-squared
It depends. In the early days Fox ran 8 megabits (they've been
consistently at 15 MBits for several years in LA) and a 1 hour show
with the spots cut out was about 3 GBytes. ABC in LA runs low rates
like Fox used to and 42 minutes is under 3 GBytes. 42 minutes on Fox
in LA is 4.5 GBytes. NBC LA is around 4.3 GBytes for 42 minutes. KCBS
LA is around 5.4 GBytes for 42 minutes so many 1'hour' shows will fit
in a DVD but being HD obviously will not play in a standard DVD player
but can be played in a PC. If you're looking to simply keep HD shows a
3 TB USB drive will hold a LOT of TV. My last 3TB drive from Fry's was
$99. That's less than 3.5 cents per GByte.

Here's my current computer's HD recordings from L.A. area to show what I
get for disk sizes:

01/13/2013 11:05 PM 19,604,925,309 70th Annual Golden Globe
Awards.mpg (KABC7.1)
01/10/2013 10:02 PM 4,438,223,160 GA s9e10.ts (KABC7.1)
01/10/2013 09:35 PM 4,084,179,930 Office s9e10.mpg (KNBC4.1)

KTLA5.1:
10/10/2012 08:01 PM 6,345,925,156 Arrow1.mpg
10/17/2012 08:00 PM 6,138,251,752 Arrow2.mpg
10/24/2012 08:04 PM 6,519,798,443 Arrow3.mpg
10/31/2012 08:00 PM 6,291,484,874 Arrow4.mpg
11/07/2012 09:06 PM 6,314,970,008 Arrow5.ts
11/14/2012 09:00 PM 6,110,515,202 Arrow6.mpg
11/28/2012 09:05 PM 6,509,256,311 Arrow7.mpg
12/05/2012 09:05 PM 6,589,812,731 Arrow8.mpg
12/12/2012 09:01 PM 5,834,384,104 Arrow9.ts
9 File(s) 56,654,398,581 bytes

KTTV11.1
11/13/2013 10:03 PM 6,763,777,520 FGs11e11andAMs9e9.ts

KTTV11.1
01/13/2013 08:31 PM 3,297,002,436 SimpsonsS24E10.ts
11/04/2012 08:33 PM 3,471,508,924 SimpsonsS24E3missingBeginning.ts
11/11/2012 08:32 PM 3,419,222,364 SimpsonsS24E4.ts
11/19/2012 07:39 AM 58,323 SimpsonsS24E5.srt
11/18/2012 08:32 PM 3,480,669,224 SimpsonsS24E5.ts
11/25/2012 08:30 PM 3,253,970,176 SimpsonsS24E6.ts
12/09/2012 08:33 PM 3,524,145,916 SimpsonsS24E7.ts
12/16/2012 08:45 PM 4,775,661,916 SimpsonsS24E8.ts
01/07/2013 08:13 PM 3,137,239,503 SimpsonsS24E9.mpg
9 File(s) 28,359,478,782 bytes

05/02/2009 10:14 AM 272,502,788 3SuperBowl3Dads2009.mpg (KNBC4.1)
01/03/2013 08:31 PM 4,039,013,152 Big Bang Theory S6E12.mpg (KABC7.1)

All recordings have commercial breaks. Some recordings have five minutes
before and after, so I would not miss anything since not all shows start
and exactly at specific atomic times. :P

[G-squared]

Post by Ant

Post by G-squared
It depends. In the early days Fox ran 8 megabits (they've been
consistently at 15 MBits for several years in LA) and a 1 hour show
with the spots cut out was about 3 GBytes. ABC in LA runs low rates
like Fox used to and 42 minutes is under 3 GBytes. 42 minutes on Fox
in LA is 4.5 GBytes. NBC LA is around 4.3 GBytes for 42 minutes. KCBS
LA is around 5.4 GBytes for 42 minutes so many 1'hour' shows will fit
in a DVD but being HD obviously will not play in a standard DVD player
but can be played in a PC. If you're looking to simply keep HD shows a
3 TB USB drive will hold a LOT of TV. My last 3TB drive from Fry's was
$99. That's less than 3.5 cents per GByte.

Here's my current computer's HD recordings from L.A. area to show what I
01/13/2013  11:05 PM    19,604,925,309 70th Annual Golden Globe
Awards.mpg (KABC7.1)
01/10/2013  10:02 PM     4,438,223,160 GA s9e10.ts (KABC7.1)
01/10/2013  09:35 PM     4,084,179,930 Office s9e10.mpg (KNBC4.1)
10/10/2012  08:01 PM     6,345,925,156 Arrow1.mpg
10/17/2012  08:00 PM     6,138,251,752 Arrow2.mpg
10/24/2012  08:04 PM     6,519,798,443 Arrow3.mpg
10/31/2012  08:00 PM     6,291,484,874 Arrow4.mpg
11/07/2012  09:06 PM     6,314,970,008 Arrow5.ts
11/14/2012  09:00 PM     6,110,515,202 Arrow6.mpg
11/28/2012  09:05 PM     6,509,256,311 Arrow7.mpg
12/05/2012  09:05 PM     6,589,812,731 Arrow8.mpg
12/12/2012  09:01 PM     5,834,384,104 Arrow9.ts
                9 File(s) 56,654,398,581 bytes
KTTV11.1
11/13/2013  10:03 PM     6,763,777,520 FGs11e11andAMs9e9.ts
KTTV11.1
01/13/2013  08:31 PM     3,297,002,436 SimpsonsS24E10.ts
11/04/2012  08:33 PM     3,471,508,924 SimpsonsS24E3missingBeginning.ts
11/11/2012  08:32 PM     3,419,222,364 SimpsonsS24E4.ts
11/19/2012  07:39 AM            58,323 SimpsonsS24E5.srt
11/18/2012  08:32 PM     3,480,669,224 SimpsonsS24E5.ts
11/25/2012  08:30 PM     3,253,970,176 SimpsonsS24E6.ts
12/09/2012  08:33 PM     3,524,145,916 SimpsonsS24E7.ts
12/16/2012  08:45 PM     4,775,661,916 SimpsonsS24E8.ts
01/07/2013  08:13 PM     3,137,239,503 SimpsonsS24E9.mpg
                9 File(s) 28,359,478,782 bytes
05/02/2009  10:14 AM       272,502,788 3SuperBowl3Dads2009.mpg (KNBC4.1)
01/03/2013  08:31 PM     4,039,013,152 Big Bang Theory S6E12.mpg (KABC7.1)
All recordings have commercial breaks. Some recordings have five minutes
before and after, so I would not miss anything since not all shows start
and exactly at specific atomic times. :P
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Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

So Philip, I used to have annoyance with the PC clock drifting and
messing up start times. I found 'PC Atomic Sync' that will force the
PC clock to one of a selection of time servers. I use NIST in Boulder
and have it set to synchronize at each boot and since the machines are
off overnight it works well. The best part is that you can select an
offset to the PC clock. All 3 machines are running 15 seconds fast so
an 8 PM star actually happens at 7:59:45. I believe the license price
was $10 for 1 or in my case, $24 for 3 machines.

Your file sizes are similar to mine - as they'd better be.

G²

[Ant]

Post by G-squared
So Philip, I used to have annoyance with the PC clock drifting and
messing up start times. I found 'PC Atomic Sync' that will force the
PC clock to one of a selection of time servers. I use NIST in Boulder
and have it set to synchronize at each boot and since the machines are
off overnight it works well. The best part is that you can select an
offset to the PC clock. All 3 machines are running 15 seconds fast so
an 8 PM star actually happens at 7:59:45. I believe the license price
was $10 for 1 or in my case, $24 for 3 machines.

No, my problem is that none of the TV shows start on time. For example
with The Simpsons on Sunday nights start at 7:59 PM PT atomic time (yes,
my computers connect to NTP servers too)! Some shows, like Grey's
Anatomy, end after 10:00 PM PT. Annoying when they do that. Starting
five minutes before and after their times fix that. :)

[J G Miller]

Post by Ant
No, my problem is that none of the TV shows start on time. For example
with The Simpsons on Sunday nights start at 7:59 PM PT atomic time

TV networks do that deliberately to try and prevent people from changing
stations and to get them hooked before a show starts on another station.

[Ant]

Post by J G Miller

Post by Ant
No, my problem is that none of the TV shows start on time. For example
with The Simpsons on Sunday nights start at 7:59 PM PT atomic time

TV networks do that deliberately to try and prevent people from changing
stations and to get them hooked before a show starts on another station.

Yeah, annoying! Hence the five minutes recordings before and after their
airtimes. :P

[Andrew Rossmann]

In article <***@4ax.com>, rfdjr1
@optonline.net says...

Post by r***@optonline.net
Will it ever be technically possible to record HDTV to DVD on the fly like we
used to do with VHS? Or transfer HDTV programs from the cable box/Tivo to a DVD
in hidef?

The biggest issue is that HD is typically digital, and often have copy
codes that limit or block recording to non-DVR's. Even if you try to go
component, there can still be codes embedded in the sync signals. Even
SD can contain codes that a recorder will recognize and block.