Discussion:
DVD aspect ratios widescreen TVs
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Bruiser
2004-09-06 12:53:58 UTC
Permalink
I'm a little confused with the whole aspect ratio of DVDs vis-a-vis
widescreen TVs. My understanding is this:

1:85:1 = 16:9 (the entire screen is used for the image)
2:35:1 = anamorphic (there will be black bars on top/bottom)

Yesterday I loaded up a movie which the box stated was "presented in
widescreen, in original 1:85:1 aspect ratio, enhanced for 16:9 televisions"
and it had black bars on top/bottom. I don't understand why it was shown
like that.

And what exactly does "enhanced for 16:9 televisions" mean?

Thanks,
Bruce
Charles Tomaras
2004-09-06 14:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruiser
I'm a little confused with the whole aspect ratio of DVDs vis-a-vis
1:85:1 = 16:9 (the entire screen is used for the image)
2:35:1 = anamorphic (there will be black bars on top/bottom)
Yesterday I loaded up a movie which the box stated was "presented in
widescreen, in original 1:85:1 aspect ratio, enhanced for 16:9
televisions"
and it had black bars on top/bottom. I don't understand why it was shown
like that.
And what exactly does "enhanced for 16:9 televisions" mean?
Actually 1.77:1 = 16:9 so there will be small black bars on material that is
1.85:1 but there are usually hidden in the overscan area of most direct view
and rear projection television.

Enhanced for 16:9 televisions lets you know that the DVD was authored in an
anamorphic fashion so that DVD players can be set for 16:9 displays and take
advantage of all of the available bits on the disc (for the given aspect
ratio) or be set for 4:3 displays thereby letterboxing the image and
retaining it's aspect ratio.

Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA
Rajendra Gondhalekar
2004-09-06 15:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Which movie was it? If the original aspect ratio was 1.85:1, then there
should have been no noticeable bars on a 16:9 TV as result of typical
overscan. If the original aspect ratio was 2.35, even a movie enhanced for
16:9 television will be encoded with bars at the top and bottom. What
enhanced for 16:9, means that a 1.85:1 and above movie is encoded
anamorphically on the disc, and the DVD player and the widescreen TV will
stretch it appropriately. This method of encoding provides more resolution
to the TV than a non anamorphic encoding.
Post by Bruiser
I'm a little confused with the whole aspect ratio of DVDs vis-a-vis
1:85:1 = 16:9 (the entire screen is used for the image)
2:35:1 = anamorphic (there will be black bars on top/bottom)
Yesterday I loaded up a movie which the box stated was "presented in
widescreen, in original 1:85:1 aspect ratio, enhanced for 16:9
televisions"
and it had black bars on top/bottom. I don't understand why it was shown
like that.
And what exactly does "enhanced for 16:9 televisions" mean?
Thanks,
Bruce
Bruiser
2004-09-06 19:26:16 UTC
Permalink
"The Cooler." However, I just looked it up on IMDB and it states it is
2:35:1, which would explain things (the box, I'm absolutely positive, stated
1:85:1 -- it even had that diagram that shows how it will look on standard
vs. widescreen TVs).

Thanks to you and Charles for the clarifications.

B.
Post by Rajendra Gondhalekar
Which movie was it? If the original aspect ratio was 1.85:1, then
there should have been no noticeable bars on a 16:9 TV as result of
typical overscan. If the original aspect ratio was 2.35, even a
movie enhanced for 16:9 television will be encoded with bars at the
top and bottom. What enhanced for 16:9, means that a 1.85:1 and
above movie is encoded anamorphically on the disc, and the DVD
player and the widescreen TV will stretch it appropriately. This
method of encoding provides more resolution to the TV than a non
anamorphic encoding.
Post by Bruiser
I'm a little confused with the whole aspect ratio of DVDs vis-a-vis
1:85:1 = 16:9 (the entire screen is used for the image)
2:35:1 = anamorphic (there will be black bars on top/bottom)
Yesterday I loaded up a movie which the box stated was "presented in
widescreen, in original 1:85:1 aspect ratio, enhanced for 16:9 televisions"
and it had black bars on top/bottom. I don't understand why it was
shown like that.
And what exactly does "enhanced for 16:9 televisions" mean?
Thanks,
Bruce
Matthew Vaughan
2004-09-07 23:02:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruiser
I'm a little confused with the whole aspect ratio of DVDs vis-a-vis
1:85:1 = 16:9 (the entire screen is used for the image)
This isn't quite correct. 16:9 is 1.78:1, and has no direct relationship to
the common movie formats. It's just much closer than 4:3 is, and happens to
be very close to 1.85:1.
Post by Bruiser
2:35:1 = anamorphic (there will be black bars on top/bottom)
Yesterday I loaded up a movie which the box stated was "presented in
widescreen, in original 1:85:1 aspect ratio, enhanced for 16:9
televisions"
and it had black bars on top/bottom. I don't understand why it was shown
like that.
And what exactly does "enhanced for 16:9 televisions" mean?
It means that the images are placed on the pixel format of the DVD in a
manner intended for display on a 16:9 monitor instead of 4:3. In either
case, there are 720 columns across in each of 480 lines. On a standard 4:3
DVD, the pixels are intended to be 12.5% taller than they are wide (which is
how regular TV is set up). On an "enhanced for 16:9" DVD they are intended
to be 18.5% wider than they are tall. If you watch a 4:3 DVD on a 16:9 TV,
set to fill the whole screen, it will appear to be stretched out
horizontally. If you watch a 16:9 DVD on a 4:3 TV, it will be compressed
horizontally.

A 4:3 letterboxed DVD provides approximately the following vertical
resolution for the two most common movie formats:

1:85:1 letterboxed: 346 lines, with 67-line black bars wasted above below
2.35:1 letterboxed: 272 lines, with 104-line black bars wasted above and
below

An "enhanced for 16:9" DVD provides approximately the following vertical
resolution for those formats:

1:85:1 letterboxed: 460 lines, with 10-line black bars wasted above and
below (but due to overscan, many TVs won't even show the black bars of the
letterbox)
2.35:1 letterboxed: 362 lines, with 59-line black bars wasted above and
below

Both still use 720 pixels across the width of the image.

So the primary benefit of an "enhanced for 16:9" DVD is increased vertical
resolution in the actual image area. It essentially lops off the top and
bottom -- which are wasted in letterboxed movies anyway -- and stretches the
rest vertically to more efficiently display the available pixels. In theory,
DVDs could be made in actual 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 formats (or any other format
desired), so that they would waste NO pixels (that is, no black bars would
ever be recorded on the DVD and all available pixels on the DVD would be
used for actual image information), with the DVD player or TV doing the
appropriate stretching and scaling to the matching area on the TV screen
(and filling in the rest with black or gray pixels). But they haven't gone
that far yet.

When it says "in original 1.85:1 aspect ratio" it means that it is
letterboxed, rather than pan-and-scanned (or horizontally compressed, which
I haven't heard of being done but might be a plausible choice for
transferring movies from 1.85:1 to 1.78:1).

If the black bars you were seeing were substantially more than 10 pixels,
then it's likely your DVD player or TV was set to expect a 4:3 DVD. In that
case, the image would also appear stretched out horizontally (which you
might or might not notice if you are already accusted to watching regular TV
stretched).
Bruiser
2004-09-07 23:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Vaughan
Post by Bruiser
I'm a little confused with the whole aspect ratio of DVDs vis-a-vis
1:85:1 = 16:9 (the entire screen is used for the image)
This isn't quite correct. 16:9 is 1.78:1, and has no direct
relationship to the common movie formats. It's just much closer than
4:3 is, and happens to be very close to 1.85:1.
Post by Bruiser
2:35:1 = anamorphic (there will be black bars on top/bottom)
Yesterday I loaded up a movie which the box stated was "presented in
widescreen, in original 1:85:1 aspect ratio, enhanced for 16:9 televisions"
and it had black bars on top/bottom. I don't understand why it was
shown like that.
And what exactly does "enhanced for 16:9 televisions" mean?
It means that the images are placed on the pixel format of the DVD
in a manner intended for display on a 16:9 monitor instead of 4:3.
In either case, there are 720 columns across in each of 480 lines.
On a standard 4:3 DVD, the pixels are intended to be 12.5% taller
than they are wide (which is how regular TV is set up). On an
"enhanced for 16:9" DVD they are intended to be 18.5% wider than
they are tall. If you watch a 4:3 DVD on a 16:9 TV, set to fill the
whole screen, it will appear to be stretched out horizontally. If
you watch a 16:9 DVD on a 4:3 TV, it will be compressed horizontally.
A 4:3 letterboxed DVD provides approximately the following vertical
1:85:1 letterboxed: 346 lines, with 67-line black bars wasted above below
2.35:1 letterboxed: 272 lines, with 104-line black bars wasted above
and below
An "enhanced for 16:9" DVD provides approximately the following
1:85:1 letterboxed: 460 lines, with 10-line black bars wasted above
and below (but due to overscan, many TVs won't even show the black
bars of the letterbox)
2.35:1 letterboxed: 362 lines, with 59-line black bars wasted above
and below
Both still use 720 pixels across the width of the image.
So the primary benefit of an "enhanced for 16:9" DVD is increased
vertical resolution in the actual image area. It essentially lops
off the top and bottom -- which are wasted in letterboxed movies
anyway -- and stretches the rest vertically to more efficiently
display the available pixels. In theory, DVDs could be made in
actual 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 formats (or any other format desired), so
that they would waste NO pixels (that is, no black bars would ever
be recorded on the DVD and all available pixels on the DVD would be
used for actual image information), with the DVD player or TV doing
the appropriate stretching and scaling to the matching area on the
TV screen (and filling in the rest with black or gray pixels). But
they haven't gone that far yet.
When it says "in original 1.85:1 aspect ratio" it means that it is
letterboxed, rather than pan-and-scanned (or horizontally
compressed, which I haven't heard of being done but might be a
plausible choice for transferring movies from 1.85:1 to 1.78:1).
If the black bars you were seeing were substantially more than 10
pixels, then it's likely your DVD player or TV was set to expect a
4:3 DVD. In that case, the image would also appear stretched out
horizontally (which you might or might not notice if you are already
accusted to watching regular TV stretched).
Thanks for taking the time for writing an "Aspect Ratio 101" primer; I shall
make a reference copy. Much appreciated! :)

I don't watch anything stretched, as I find it pretty annoying. In the case
of the film in question ("The Cooler"), the box ID'd it as 1:85:1, but IMDB
says it is 2:35:1, so that pretty much answers that. However, I watched
another last night ("The Human Stain"), and, again, the box said 1:85:1
(confirmed at IMBD), but there were black bars on top/bottom. Both my DVD
player and TV have the display set to 16:9. Would the black bars be
considered part of the 16:9 image as far as the DVD labelling is
concerned -- when it states "Widescreen (enhanced for 16:9 televisions)"?
Matthew Vaughan
2004-09-09 15:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruiser
I don't watch anything stretched, as I find it pretty annoying. In the case
of the film in question ("The Cooler"), the box ID'd it as 1:85:1, but IMDB
says it is 2:35:1, so that pretty much answers that. However, I watched
another last night ("The Human Stain"), and, again, the box said 1:85:1
(confirmed at IMBD), but there were black bars on top/bottom. Both my DVD
player and TV have the display set to 16:9. Would the black bars be
considered part of the 16:9 image as far as the DVD labelling is
concerned -- when it states "Widescreen (enhanced for 16:9 televisions)"?
Yes, recorded on the DVD within the 16:9 image area will be those 20 or so
lines (10 above, 10 below) containing only black.

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