The Death of Terrestrial Broadcasting Is Nigh

[whosbest54]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp

"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."

whosbest54
--
The flamewars are over...if you want it.

Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://whosbest54.netau.net/rao.htm

Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://whosbest54.netau.net/rmb.html

If the pages time out, try whosbest54.netau.net in
a site unblocker proxy like: http://www.site2unblock.com

[Les Cargill]

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

Cable too:
http://deadline.com/2014/10/richard-plepler-time-warner-investor-day-hbo-ceo-presentation-851815/

[f***@home.com]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

http://deadline.com/2014/10/richard-plepler-time-warner-investor-day-hbo-ceo-presentation-851815/
--
Les Cargill

LOL.. HBO willl need something better than 2 year old movies is they want my money.

[Patty Winter]

In article <nK6dnbHpgvhIiKLJnZ2dnUU7-***@mchsi.com>, <***@home.com> wrote:

[unneeded quotage deleted]

Post by f***@home.com
LOL.. HBO willl need something better than 2 year old movies is they want my money.

Two-year-old movies? They premiere a lot of new movies.

But that isn't the main reason that people want to watch HBO these days.
It's mostly for their top-notch original series and documentaries.


Patty

[<'>]

In article <nK6dnbHpgvhIiKLJnZ2dnUU7-***@mchsi.com>, <***@home.com> wrote:

[unneeded quotage deleted]

Post by Patty Winter

Post by f***@home.com
LOL.. HBO willl need something better than 2 year old movies is they want my money.

Two-year-old movies? They premiere a lot of new movies.

Looking whats on today I see:

Pleasantville (1998)
Life Of Pi (2012)
Kingdom Come (2001)
Without Limits (1998)
Monster In Law (2005)

I was being generous saying 2 years old!

Post by Patty Winter
But that isn't the main reason that people want to watch HBO these days.
It's mostly for their top-notch original series and documentaries.
Patty

[Patty Winter]

In article <qaCdnRT9rIhlIqLJnZ2dnUU7-***@mchsi.com>,
***@home.com <'> wrote:

[unneeded quotage deleted]

[attribution missing]

Post by <'>

Post by Patty Winter
Two-year-old movies? They premiere a lot of new movies.

Pleasantville (1998)
Life Of Pi (2012)
Kingdom Come (2001)
Without Limits (1998)
Monster In Law (2005)

You're looking at a single day? Boy, your research skills are
sure poor.

Just looking at the home page for this month's movies, I see the
following movies mentioned, and they're all from 2013 and 2014:

Rush
Lone Survivor (Oscar nominee)
Ride Along
Red 2
Dallas Buyers Club (multiple Oscar winner)
12 Years a Slave (Oscar Winner as Best Motion Picture)
The Normal Heart (Emmy Winner as Outstanding TV Movie)
Riddick

"...of the top 25 box office hits released in the past year, HBO has
exclusive rights to more than half of them; Netflix only has three
of them locked up."

http://www.vulture.com/2014/10/your-questions-about-stand-alone-hbo-go-answered.
html

If you don't like what HBO offers, fine. But at least be honest about
what they offer.


Patty

[<'>]

In article <qaCdnRT9rIhlIqLJnZ2dnUU7-***@mchsi.com>,
***@home.com <'> wrote:

[unneeded quotage deleted]

[attribution missing]

Post by Patty Winter

Post by <'>

Post by Patty Winter
Two-year-old movies? They premiere a lot of new movies.

Pleasantville (1998)
Life Of Pi (2012)
Kingdom Come (2001)
Without Limits (1998)
Monster In Law (2005)

You're looking at a single day? Boy, your research skills are
sure poor.
Just looking at the home page for this month's movies, I see the
Rush
Lone Survivor (Oscar nominee)
Ride Along
Red 2
Dallas Buyers Club (multiple Oscar winner)
12 Years a Slave (Oscar Winner as Best Motion Picture)
The Normal Heart (Emmy Winner as Outstanding TV Movie)
Riddick
"...of the top 25 box office hits released in the past year, HBO has
exclusive rights to more than half of them; Netflix only has three
of them locked up."
http://www.vulture.com/2014/10/your-questions-about-stand-alone-hbo-go-answered.
html
If you don't like what HBO offers, fine. But at least be honest about
what they offer.

I was not being intentionally dishonest. I simply looked at was on the channel today.
Now in the interest of honesty, how typical is what is on today vs.
how often is the more recent content you reference on. I don't know and really don't
care. I do know of the few times I have visted family who had HBO, could not find anything
to watch that was had not already seen or was suitable for family viewing.

I can say when I was a cable customer I never subscribed to any of the movie
channels as by the time it aired, more than not, I had already rented/watched it.

If the article you reference is correct and the cost is anywhere near $15
a month, I don't think it will fly. If you look down the road as this being the future,
how many $15/month subscriptions will it take before it cost more than cable tv?

Lets see.. ESPN, FoX, ABC, CBS,NBC, Showtime, Hbo *, feel free to add to the list * $15 = megabucks

Post by Patty Winter
Patty

[Wes Newell]

Sooner or later they'll all be free to ota TV. Now if you don't mind
spending $100K over the next 50 years paying to see it sooner, fine. Pay
TV or movies for that matter just isn't for me. There's only so much TV I
can watch in a day, and with a 6 tuner dvr, I can't even keep up with
that. But I'd like to thank all of you that do pay for it. Without you I
probably wouldn't have everything I own paid for and a 6 figure savings
account.

[UCLAN]

Post by Wes Newell
Sooner or later they'll all be free to ota TV. Now if you don't mind
spending $100K over the next 50 years paying to see it sooner, fine. Pay
TV or movies for that matter just isn't for me. There's only so much TV I
can watch in a day, and with a 6 tuner dvr, I can't even keep up with
that. But I'd like to thank all of you that do pay for it. Without you I
probably wouldn't have everything I own paid for and a 6 figure savings
account.

A six-figure savings account? Are we supposed to be impressed? Hell, I've got
a six-figure checking account.

[Wes Newell]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Wes Newell
Sooner or later they'll all be free to ota TV. Now if you don't mind
spending $100K over the next 50 years paying to see it sooner, fine.
Pay TV or movies for that matter just isn't for me. There's only so
much TV I can watch in a day, and with a 6 tuner dvr, I can't even keep
up with that. But I'd like to thank all of you that do pay for it.
Without you I probably wouldn't have everything I own paid for and a 6
figure savings account.

A six-figure savings account? Are we supposed to be impressed? Hell,
I've got a six-figure checking account.

Decimal places don't count. :-)

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by UCLAN
A six-figure savings account? Are we supposed to be impressed? Hell, I've got
a six-figure checking account.

Geeze, and I was thinking things were pretty good when I had commas in
either....

[John McWilliams]

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."

What a facile and clueless piece. Written by a myopic blowhard.

[Stephen]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

PC Mag, more than once, predicted the death of the printer...

Pundits also said:
TV was going to kill radio...
VHS/Beta/DVD was going to kill movie theatres...

Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after each of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after each of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after each of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

hey do exist, but I guess you have to plan ahead.

I have one; it was cheap, and the screen resolution is nowhere near
1920x1080. But it's only a 7" screen, so it manages to look OK. I have
to connect mine to the antenna on the roof to get more than one channel
:-)

I don't remember the res and I can't find the manual, but it's actually
less than SD, IIRC. Still 16:9, though

In my case, planning ahead entails remembering to charge the battery
*before* the earthquake. If I forgot, it does have a car power cord, but
it won't charge from it, IIRC.

Speaking of earthquakes, today is the 25th anniversary of the Loma
Prieta Earthquake, a pretty big shake-up in this area.

[TJ]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after each of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

Or, buy a power inverter to have at the ready to run a small digital TV
from a car battery.

TJ

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 14:40:27 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after each of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

During my 2 weeks of electrical outage during Hurricane Ike, my old
Samsung DLP HDTV worked just fine off my even older generator.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 14:40:27 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after
each
of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

During my 2 weeks of electrical outage during Hurricane Ike, my old
Samsung DLP HDTV worked just fine off my even older generator.

Keep giving your solutions. Mine is cheap and simple but apparently
requires too much electronic and computer knowledge.
-jsw

[Ron]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 14:40:27 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after
each
of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

During my 2 weeks of electrical outage during Hurricane Ike, my old
Samsung DLP HDTV worked just fine off my even older generator.

Keep giving your solutions. Mine is cheap and simple but apparently
requires too much electronic and computer knowledge.
-jsw

You can run more than just a TV with a generator. When you don't have
power for 2 weeks in August, in Florida, just having a *fan* is
wonderful! I went out and bought a small AC (window unit) after those
hurricanes came through just so I could sleep at night.

[Ant]

Post by Ron
You can run more than just a TV with a generator. When you don't have
power for 2 weeks in August, in Florida, just having a *fan* is
wonderful! I went out and bought a small AC (window unit) after those
hurricanes came through just so I could sleep at night.

Don't ACs use a lot of power?

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Ant

Post by Ron
You can run more than just a TV with a generator. When you don't have
power for 2 weeks in August, in Florida, just having a *fan* is
wonderful! I went out and bought a small AC (window unit) after those
hurricanes came through just so I could sleep at night.

Don't ACs use a lot of power?

They do (I'm too lazy to get specific) but generators are available in
pretty high capacities.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Ant
Don't ACs use a lot of power?

They do (I'm too lazy to get specific) but generators are available in
pretty high capacities.

Also, ACs are available in low capacities.

[Ron]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after each of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

I've got one.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Ron

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after
each
of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

I've got one.

Which one, and how do you like it?

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Reinvention of Broadcast TV: 10 Things to Know

Broadcasters bet its future on ATSC 3.0

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1324366

[quote]At 1:00 a.m., Wednesday, Oct. 22, WKOW-TV in Madison, Wis., briefly shut off its digital TV signals and transmitted 4K UHDTV, 720P HD, and 480P SD signals simultaneously. Witnesses were a group of industry expert viewers, broadcast engineers in the region, and a few reporters, including EE Times.[/quote]

WKOW, I watched that station .

------------------------------

They want us to buy new DTVs so they can continue in business using less channels.

But as high as Cable bills are now, it might be cheaper to buy the new DTV or another round of converter boxes. Some of the old ones are still being used.

SHF

[Ron]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Ron

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after
each
of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.
Stephen

Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

I've got one.

Which one, and how do you like it?

This is the one I have. It's great for when the power goes out. The
battery life could be better.

http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/PT902_37/portable-tv/overview

[Ant]

Post by Ron

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Ron

Post by Jim Wilkins
Then the problem becomes finding a battery-powered HDTV to receive it.

I've got one.

Which one, and how do you like it?

This is the one I have. It's great for when the power goes out. The
battery life could be better.
http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/PT902_37/portable-tv/overview

My uncle gave my family and me one of those 7" Digital Prism HDTVs a few
years ago. It was useful to test OTA outside to figure out where the
best place to find OTA. ;)

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by Ant
My uncle gave my family and me one of those 7" Digital Prism HDTVs a few
years ago.

pssssst...it's not an HDTV.

It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

[TJ]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by Ant
My uncle gave my family and me one of those 7" Digital Prism HDTVs a few
years ago.

pssssst...it's not an HDTV.
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Picky, picky.

It would do the job of receiving OTA TV during a power outage, and
that's what's important in the context of this thread.

TJ

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

Post by TJ

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by Ant
My uncle gave my family and me one of those 7" Digital Prism HDTVs a few
years ago.

pssssst...it's not an HDTV.
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Picky, picky.
It would do the job of receiving OTA TV during a power outage, and
that's what's important in the context of this thread.
TJ

LOL

It's screen resolution is 600 x 220 pixels. That's a lot poorer than
most phones. Only a real TV addict would consider this acceptable,
since news (what one would want to expect to be important in a
hurricane) is available over phones and tablets.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by TJ

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by Ant
My uncle gave my family and me one of those 7" Digital Prism HDTVs a few
years ago.

pssssst...it's not an HDTV.
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Picky, picky.
It would do the job of receiving OTA TV during a power outage, and
that's what's important in the context of this thread.
TJ

LOL
It's screen resolution is 600 x 220 pixels. That's a lot poorer than
most phones. Only a real TV addict would consider this acceptable,
since news (what one would want to expect to be important in a
hurricane) is available over phones and tablets.

I think the most useful storm information comes from NWS weather
radar, which shows what precipitation (but not wind) is approaching
your location and roughly how soon it will arrive. Dialup and XP+IE8
on a 1024x768 laptop screen are adequate to view it, and since it's
frequently updated you don't consume battery life waiting for a
weather report to come up in the news cycle.

Here is the site:
http://www.weather.gov/Radar
I don't have a smart phone to try it on.

-jsw

[Ron]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by TJ

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by Ant
My uncle gave my family and me one of those 7" Digital Prism HDTVs a few
years ago.

pssssst...it's not an HDTV.
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Picky, picky.
It would do the job of receiving OTA TV during a power outage, and
that's what's important in the context of this thread.
TJ

LOL
It's screen resolution is 600 x 220 pixels. That's a lot poorer than
most phones. Only a real TV addict would consider this acceptable,
since news (what one would want to expect to be important in a
hurricane) is available over phones and tablets.

Actually, the TV mentioned above has a screen resolution of 480 x 234.

The one I have has a screen resolution of 600 x 220 and on a 9" screen
from a viewing distance of 2-3 feet it looks fine. If the power goes out
for a few hours and one of my favorite shows is coming on network TV
then I can watch it. I also have 2 17.3" laptops with 4 hours of battery
life each that I can watch movies on.

If it's a storm situation where the power is going to be out for an
extended amount of time I have a generator. Which thankfully I haven't
had to use in years.

Also, not everyone has a smartphone and my tablet only works with wi-fi.

[Ant]

On 10/25/2014 11:23 AM PT, Ron typed:
...

Post by Ron
If it's a storm situation where the power is going to be out for an
extended amount of time I have a generator. Which thankfully I haven't
had to use in years.

Does it still work? ;)

Post by Ron
Also, not everyone has a smartphone and my tablet only works with wi-fi.

I don't even have those. :/

[Ron]

Post by Ant
...

Post by Ron
If it's a storm situation where the power is going to be out for an
extended amount of time I have a generator. Which thankfully I haven't
had to use in years.

Does it still work? ;)

Yes it does. lol

Post by Ant

Post by Ron
Also, not everyone has a smartphone and my tablet only works with wi-fi.

I don't even have those. :/

I don't need or even want a smartphone. No reason to add to my cellphone
bill. My girlfriend and I both are with AT&T and she has been upgrading
her phone every 2 years and she has a data plan. Right now her "old"
Samsung smartphone is sitting in a box in a closet. I would use it, but
AT&T FORCES a data plan on you whether you want it or not.

Her brother gave me his Kindle Fire tablet because he bought a Samsung
Tab 3. So that was a freebie that I can run on wi-fi. About the only
thing I use it for is playing games.

[Anth]

Post by TJ

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by Ant
My uncle gave my family and me one of those 7" Digital Prism HDTVs a few
years ago.

pssssst...it's not an HDTV.
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Picky, picky.
It would do the job of receiving OTA TV during a power outage, and that's
what's important in the context of this thread.

Or if you have an iPad then you can always fit an external tuner something
like this.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/idtv-dvbt-ipadiphone-tv-tuner-with-30-pin-connector-a95lb

[Ant]

Post by Anth
Or if you have an iPad then you can always fit an external tuner
something like this.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/idtv-dvbt-ipadiphone-tv-tuner-with-30-pin-connector-a95lb

So, it's like USB tuners for computers. I wonder how well this type
works compared to it. Does it even have a DVR software? ;)

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Hi,

The USB tuner works just as good as the tuners in my HTPC (5 Capture plus 3
more).

There are many solutions for a DVR.

The USB tuner is / was the best tuner available a few years ago.

But it suffers from the same problem as two of the best tuners in my HTPC,
the software is defective. Captures often never start.

WMC does not use this horrible software and captures work well AFAIK.

SHF

Post by Anth
Or if you have an iPad then you can always fit an external tuner
something like this.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/idtv-dvbt-ipadiphone-tv-tuner-with-30-pin-connector-a95lb

So, it's like USB tuners for computers. I wonder how well this type works
compared to it. Does it even have a DVR software? ;)
--
"Even the wishes of a small ant reach heaven." --Japanese
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[Ant]

Ah, even PCI(e) tuners' softwares can suck. I used to use DVB Viewer Pro
in Windows XP Pro SP3 which was the best one I could find. I read that
Windows Media Center and MythTV are good, but I never used them fully.

Post by Stephen H. Fischer
Hi,
The USB tuner works just as good as the tuners in my HTPC (5 Capture
plus 3 more).
There are many solutions for a DVR.
The USB tuner is / was the best tuner available a few years ago.
But it suffers from the same problem as two of the best tuners in my
HTPC, the software is defective. Captures often never start.
WMC does not use this horrible software and captures work well AFAIK.
SHF

--
"I made my list for my birthday." --Christopher. "Yeah, what'd you put
on there? - A basketball or an ant farm." and "This could be an ant
farm. This could be a microscope or anything." --Chris from The Pursuit
of Happyness movie.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Of my seven (7) tuners in my HTPC, five (5) of those have a close to perfect
record of making captures. (One tuner is in my rotten HDTV.)

The other two have defective software, the same as for my USB tuner all of
which are the BEST tuners I have (Hardware wise).

The number of software DVR is quite large and of course vary as would be for
other USB tuners.

I receive 98 streams and more being added all the time.

Here is a list from a while ago, not up to date.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/731457-hdhomerun-dual-atsc-qam-ethernet-box-66.html#post24078505

I do not use WMC and Myth is for Linux.

SHF

Post by Ant
Ah, even PCI(e) tuners' softwares can suck. I used to use DVB Viewer Pro
in Windows XP Pro SP3 which was the best one I could find. I read that
Windows Media Center and MythTV are good, but I never used them fully.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Stephen H. Fischer
Of my seven (7) tuners in my HTPC, five (5) of those have a close to
perfect record of making captures. (One tuner is in my rotten HDTV.)
The other two have defective software, the same as for my USB tuner
all of which are the BEST tuners I have (Hardware wise).
The number of software DVR is quite large and of course vary as
would be for other USB tuners.
I receive 98 streams and more being added all the time.
Here is a list from a while ago, not up to date.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/731457-hdhomerun-dual-atsc-qam-ethernet-box-66.html#post24078505
I do not use WMC and Myth is for Linux.
SHF

Post by Ant
Ah, even PCI(e) tuners' softwares can suck. I used to use DVB
Viewer Pro in Windows XP Pro SP3 which was the best one I could
find. I read that Windows Media Center and MythTV are good, but I
never used them fully.

I've had good results from Hauppauge 850 and 950 and Aver H837 USB
tuners. The Aver 3D software for 7 and XP works well, as does Win 7
Media Center.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by TJ

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Picky, picky.
It would do the job of receiving OTA TV during a power outage, and
that's what's important in the context of this thread.

But that doesn't change that it's just a TV.

That people think everything is an HDTV, is crazy.

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by TJ

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Picky, picky.
It would do the job of receiving OTA TV during a power outage, and
that's what's important in the context of this thread.

But that doesn't change that it's just a TV.
That people think everything is an HDTV, is crazy.

I haven't looked up Ant's set, but I can tell you that I have a battery
portable set which *is* an HDTV, but with a very much *not* HD screen. I
don't have the specs, but it's similar to the numbers posted by others
here, such as Ron's 600x200.

And here's why I say it's an HDTV: it receives OTA ATSC.

As with Ron, from a couple of feet away it looks fine.

[TJ]

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by TJ

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Picky, picky.
It would do the job of receiving OTA TV during a power outage, and
that's what's important in the context of this thread.

But that doesn't change that it's just a TV.
That people think everything is an HDTV, is crazy.

I haven't looked up Ant's set, but I can tell you that I have a battery
portable set which *is* an HDTV, but with a very much *not* HD screen. I
don't have the specs, but it's similar to the numbers posted by others
here, such as Ron's 600x200.
And here's why I say it's an HDTV: it receives OTA ATSC.
As with Ron, from a couple of feet away it looks fine.

The picky among us would say the *proper* term is "digital TV," or "ATSC
TV." They would say it's not "HD" if the resolution isn't in the "High
Definition" range. Most would even question calling a 720p TV an "HDTV,"
even though they are commonly sold as such.

I feel sorry for them.

TJ

[Patty Winter]

In article <m2h6rp$dk3$***@dont-email.me>, TJ <***@noneofyour.business> wrote:

[extraneous quotage deleted]

Post by TJ
The picky among us would say the *proper* term is "digital TV," or "ATSC
TV." They would say it's not "HD" if the resolution isn't in the "High
Definition" range. Most would even question calling a 720p TV an "HDTV,"
even though they are commonly sold as such.
I feel sorry for them.

Why? When my faithful Sony CRT died a few years ago, I bought a used
Sharp 32" digital TV from my serviceman. It was only 720p, but I got
numerous comments from friends about how nice the display was. I now
have a 45" 1080 HDTV in the living room, but I don't feel like I was
worth of sympathy before that.


Patty

[TJ]

Post by Patty Winter
[extraneous quotage deleted]

Post by TJ
The picky among us would say the *proper* term is "digital TV," or "ATSC
TV." They would say it's not "HD" if the resolution isn't in the "High
Definition" range. Most would even question calling a 720p TV an "HDTV,"
even though they are commonly sold as such.
I feel sorry for them.

Why? When my faithful Sony CRT died a few years ago, I bought a used
Sharp 32" digital TV from my serviceman. It was only 720p, but I got
numerous comments from friends about how nice the display was. I now
have a 45" 1080 HDTV in the living room, but I don't feel like I was
worth of sympathy before that.
Patty

Don't get your hackles up, Patty. What I meant was I feel sorry for the
picky among us.

I have but one digital TV, an 18" 720p Memorex that I picked up at a
Salvation Army store for $20. It does a fine job here on a shelf over my
desk, and it's nice and easy to pack for my annual fishing trip to
Ogdensburg, NY, where I use a simple bowtie to pick up digital stations
from Ottawa, over 30 miles away.

Other than that, I use various CRT TVs, from 9-inch to 25, with
converter boxes and indoor antennas. I had two 30+ year old sets go bad
on me over the last year, and replaced them with nice CRTs for about $15
each. And I couldn't be happier.

As for an emergency, my 9-inch CRT TV will run on a 12-volt car or
tractor battery, and I have a power inverter to run the converter box.
Or, the inverter will run the DTV just fine. *OR* I can use some of our
farm gas to fire up the 4000-watt generator that's in the garage.

TJ

[Patty Winter]

Post by TJ

Post by Patty Winter
[extraneous quotage deleted]

Don't get your hackles up, Patty. What I meant was I feel sorry for the
picky among us.

Oh, no hackles! You've never been one to take potshots at other posters.
I just didn't understand why anyone would pity the owner of a 720p TV.
Someone would have to be very picky to feel that way!

Post by TJ
I have but one digital TV, an 18" 720p Memorex that I picked up at a
Salvation Army store for $20. It does a fine job here on a shelf over my
desk, and it's nice and easy to pack for my annual fishing trip to
Ogdensburg, NY, where I use a simple bowtie to pick up digital stations
from Ottawa, over 30 miles away.

The old Sharp is now on a desk in my office, also hooked up to a bowtie. :-)

Post by TJ
Other than that, I use various CRT TVs, from 9-inch to 25, with
converter boxes and indoor antennas.

I have a small CRT (12", I think) plus a converter box. It's on the floor
since I moved the Sharp onto the desk, but I don't see a reason to get rid
of it.

Post by TJ
As for an emergency, my 9-inch CRT TV will run on a 12-volt car or
tractor battery, and I have a power inverter to run the converter box.
Or, the inverter will run the DTV just fine. *OR* I can use some of our
farm gas to fire up the 4000-watt generator that's in the garage.

Yeah, that should do it. :-) I could probably run the little CRT from
an inverter, too. Or maybe one of these days I'll buy a little 12v
digital TV. I used to have a 12v NTSC TV that came in handy for a few
hours after the Loma Prieta quake before we got power back. (At which
point I was glad I had an indoor antenna handy, because Comcast was
out for a few more hours after that.)


Patty

[Ron]

Post by Patty Winter
The old Sharp is now on a desk in my office, also hooked up to a bowtie. :-)

It's hooked up to a Chevy? Cool!

[Sal M. O'Nella]

"TJ" wrote in message news:m2h6rp$dk3$***@dont-email.me...

< snip >
The picky among us would say the *proper* term is "digital TV," or "ATSC
TV." They would say it's not "HD" if the resolution isn't in the "High
Definition" range. Most would even question calling a 720p TV an "HDTV,"
even though they are commonly sold as such.

I feel sorry for them.

TJ
===========================================================

Several of the networks use 720P for their HD and I never notice the
difference. Above a certain detail threshold, I think it all looks really
good. (My TV is a 52-inch Sony Bravia and my eyesight is quite good.)

For those who look down on 720p, bless your hearts.

Sal

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by Gene E. Bloch
but I can tell you that I have a battery
portable set which *is* an HDTV, but with a very much *not* HD screen.

How, then, is it an HDTV?

Sure, it takes in OTA digital signals. So? An HDTV presents the
picture in HDTV. Your battery operated set does not. It processes what
it gets OTA down to a point where it can present a picture suitable to
its tiny screen.

And that's not HDTV. You have a digital tuner in your TV, but that
doesn't make your TV HD.

[Wes Newell]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

but I can tell you that I have a battery portable set which *is* an
HDTV, but with a very much *not* HD screen.

How, then, is it an HDTV?
Sure, it takes in OTA digital signals. So? An HDTV presents the
picture in HDTV. Your battery operated set does not. It processes what
it gets OTA down to a point where it can present a picture suitable to
its tiny screen.
And that's not HDTV. You have a digital tuner in your TV, but that
doesn't make your TV HD.

All depends on how you want to define HD. A 400 pixel wide 7" 16:9 screen
has a higher resolution (dpi), thus higher definition than a 1080 pixel
wide 32" 16:9 screen that you want to call HD. Whether you want call it HD
or not is irrelevant. It has a higher resolution than standard size HDTV's
and with more dpi will be clearer than a 32" 1080p hdtv when viewed at the
same distance. Since it will receive a 1080p broadcast and display it in a
higher resolution than a standard HDTV will, I'd been fine calling it an
hdtv even though it doesn't fit the definition of hdtv for standard
console sets.

[Ant]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by Ant
My uncle gave my family and me one of those 7" Digital Prism HDTVs a few
years ago.

pssssst...it's not an HDTV.
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

Its HD videos look good even with 720p and 1080i compared to SD.
--
"I don't know how good ants are at swimmin', but I'd be willing to bet
that a good fire'd get their attention." --MacGyver in Trumbo's World
episode
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[George Cornelius]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
pssssst...it's not an HDTV.
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

So you want to lord it over everybody else that you've got
more pixels than the other guy. A resolution snob.

In Japan, HDTV came in without a digital conversion. For
some reason the powers that be in the U.S. decided not to
go along with that - not invented here syndrome? - so in this
country DTV and HDTV appeared at precisely the same time,
with DTV, the enabling technology, being necessary for HD.

So who cares how many lines are on your set? You either
have a set that supports the new technology - DTV - or
you do not. Lines of resolution have just about nothing
to do with it. - other than bragging rights.

George Cornelius

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by George Cornelius

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
It's just a TV. A modern TV, that interprets digital broadcast signals.
But it's certainly not an HDTV.

So you want to lord it over everybody else that you've got
more pixels than the other guy. A resolution snob.

?????

Where did THAT come from?

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by George Cornelius
In Japan, HDTV came in without a digital conversion. For
some reason the powers that be in the U.S. decided not to
go along with that - not invented here syndrome? - so in this
country DTV and HDTV appeared at precisely the same time,
with DTV, the enabling technology, being necessary for HD.
So who cares how many lines are on your set? You either
have a set that supports the new technology - DTV - or
you do not. Lines of resolution have just about nothing
to do with it. - other than bragging rights.

right, which is why to say "I have a 7 inch HDTV" is false, when what
you mean is "I have a 7 inch TV that receives digital signals".

The point is, stupid people have been brainwashed into thinking that all
ATSC is HDTV.

[Wes Newell]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

In Japan, HDTV came in without a digital conversion. For some reason
the powers that be in the U.S. decided not to go along with that - not
invented here syndrome? - so in this country DTV and HDTV appeared at
precisely the same time, with DTV, the enabling technology, being
necessary for HD.
So who cares how many lines are on your set? You either have a set
that supports the new technology - DTV - or you do not. Lines of
resolution have just about nothing to do with it. - other than bragging
rights.

right, which is why to say "I have a 7 inch HDTV" is false, when what
you mean is "I have a 7 inch TV that receives digital signals".
The point is, stupid people have been brainwashed into thinking that all
ATSC is HDTV.

This really getting old and doing nothing but wasting bandwidth. A 7"
screen with resolution of 400x200 has a pixel resolution of ~57 dpi. A 32"
wide 1280 pixel hdtv screen has a pixel resolution of 40 dpi, which is
considerably lower than the 7" wide screen, thus making the picture
resolution higher on the 7" tv. So now the HDTV moniker doesn't really
mean much. It's all relative to screen size and the definition of HD,
which really has nothing to do with resolution.
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/H/HDTV.html

[Les Cargill]

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

PC Mag, more than once, predicted the death of the printer...
TV was going to kill radio...

It did. It was born again with AOR.

Post by Stephen
VHS/Beta/DVD was going to kill movie theatres...

It, again, did. New finance model resulting in many megaplexes.

Nearly every small town has a movie theater in some state of
disrepair.

Post by Stephen
Internet, phone and cable go down during disasters, but OTA is still
going. Radio & tv stations were the only things working after each of
the 2004 hurricanes here in Floirda.

I remember cell service working.

[GrtArtiste]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

PC Mag, more than once, predicted the death of the printer...
TV was going to kill radio...

It did. It was born again with AOR.

Post by Stephen
VHS/Beta/DVD was going to kill movie theatres...

It, again, did. New finance model resulting in many megaplexes.
Nearly every small town has a movie theater in some state of
disrepair.

I hope to hear more about this fascinating subject, but not until
the average Internet user has access to 150MB+ speeds that don't
cost a king's ransom each month. And for whoever wants to push all
this data through the pipe instead of the air I have two words: DATA CAPS.

[Les Cargill]

Post by GrtArtiste

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

PC Mag, more than once, predicted the death of the printer...
TV was going to kill radio...

It did. It was born again with AOR.

Post by Stephen
VHS/Beta/DVD was going to kill movie theatres...

It, again, did. New finance model resulting in many megaplexes.
Nearly every small town has a movie theater in some state of
disrepair.

I hope to hear more about this fascinating subject, but not until
the average Internet user has access to 150MB+ speeds that don't
cost a king's ransom each month. And for whoever wants to push all
this data through the pipe instead of the air I have two words: DATA CAPS.

This won't happen, and people will simply disengage. It's already
happening. The 20-somethings I know pirate for a while, then just stop.

[whosbest54]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by GrtArtiste

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

PC Mag, more than once, predicted the death of the printer...
TV was going to kill radio...

It did. It was born again with AOR.

Post by Stephen
VHS/Beta/DVD was going to kill movie theatres...

It, again, did. New finance model resulting in many megaplexes.
Nearly every small town has a movie theater in some state of
disrepair.

I hope to hear more about this fascinating subject, but not until
the average Internet user has access to 150MB+ speeds that don't
cost a king's ransom each month. And for whoever wants to push all
this data through the pipe instead of the air I have two words: DATA CAPS.

This won't happen, and people will simply disengage. It's already
happening. The 20-somethings I know pirate for a while, then just stop.

The 30 and 20-somethings and younger I know are using Utube, Netflix and other
online content sources for entertainment, not live sports, and aren't
stopping. Heck, I know a lot of baby boomers who do this too. Most aren't
bothering to use OTA. A few are getting cable/sat but most I know aren't. I
know these observations aren't scientific, but I believe this is the direction
for entertainment content, but not for live sports - yet.

I agree OTA and the current cable/sat delivery systems are more efficient from
a congestion standpoint. Case in point was 9/11, where those trying to stream
the events were sometimes met with network congestion and those who went to
their OTA, cable or sat connected TVs had no such issues. Big streaming
events on HBO and others have brought those sites down. But the reality is
OTA/cable/sat not where the market seems to be heading, but to online.

This seems to mean the internet and 'cell' (wireless) networks will continue
to get more congested. But if the demand is there, the investments will be
made to provide the bigger pipes - the only question is when.

I love my OTA programming and don't want it to go away. But the market seems
to say otherwise and that's disappointing.

whosbest54
--
The flamewars are over...if you want it.

Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://whosbest54.netau.net/rao.htm

Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://whosbest54.netau.net/rmb.html

If the pages time out, try whosbest54.netau.net in
a site unblocker proxy like: http://www.site2unblock.com

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by whosbest54
I love my OTA programming and don't want it to go away. But the market seems
to say otherwise and that's disappointing.
whosbest54
--

Around here, >30 miles from the transmitters, OTA seems to be strictly
do-it-yourself. Radio Shack is slowly dropping the hardware.
-jsw

[Anth]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by whosbest54
I love my OTA programming and don't want it to go away. But the market seems
to say otherwise and that's disappointing.
whosbest54
--

Around here, >30 miles from the transmitters, OTA seems to be strictly
do-it-yourself. Radio Shack is slowly dropping the hardware.
-jsw

Whilst here in the UK mainstream digital OTA and streaming services
flourish, I've heard US pundits argue that you allow your cable and
satellite broadcasters way to much power to stifle competition.

http://www.freeview.co.uk/

http://whatson.freesat.co.uk/tvguide/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Anth

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by whosbest54
I love my OTA programming and don't want it to go away. But the market seems
to say otherwise and that's disappointing.
whosbest54
--

Around here, >30 miles from the transmitters, OTA seems to be
strictly do-it-yourself. Radio Shack is slowly dropping the
hardware.
-jsw

Whilst here in the UK mainstream digital OTA and streaming services
flourish, I've heard US pundits argue that you allow your cable and
satellite broadcasters way to much power to stifle competition.
http://www.freeview.co.uk/
http://whatson.freesat.co.uk/tvguide/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer

I suspect the reason here in the US is the extra channels cable and
satellite carry and the technical difficulty of installing and
maintaining a rooftop antenna.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBO

-jsw

[(PeteCresswell)]

...the technical difficulty of installing and
maintaining a rooftop antenna.

Is it any harder than installing/maintaining a satellite dish?

We paid a guy to install our rooftop OTA antenna something like 15 years
ago and it's been working a-ok ever since.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by (PeteCresswell)

...the technical difficulty of installing and
maintaining a rooftop antenna.

Is it any harder than installing/maintaining a satellite dish?
We paid a guy to install our rooftop OTA antenna something like 15 years
ago and it's been working a-ok ever since.
--
Pete Cresswell

Every few years the signal levels decrease and I find higher
resistance at the exposed element connections. The last time I took
the antenna down I drilled out the rivets, scrubbed the joint surfaces
and coated them with Ox-Gard, then reassembled it with aluminum nuts
and bolts. The end-to-end resistance of the VHF section dropped from
several hundred to about 20 milliOhms. The level is still 91/100
today.
-jsw

[Ant]

Post by (PeteCresswell)

...the technical difficulty of installing and
maintaining a rooftop antenna.

Is it any harder than installing/maintaining a satellite dish?
We paid a guy to install our rooftop OTA antenna something like 15 years
ago and it's been working a-ok ever since.

Don't satellite services not allowed their subscribers to touch their
dishes if they could? Even adjusting indoor antenna(s/e) can be a pain!

[Patty Winter]

[attributions missing]

Post by Ant

Post by (PeteCresswell)

...the technical difficulty of installing and
maintaining a rooftop antenna.

Is it any harder than installing/maintaining a satellite dish?
We paid a guy to install our rooftop OTA antenna something like 15 years
ago and it's been working a-ok ever since.

Don't satellite services not allowed their subscribers to touch their
dishes if they could? Even adjusting indoor antenna(s/e) can be a pain!

"Not allowed"? It isn't their property, it's owned by the customer.

And while adjusting an indoor antenna may sometimes be a pain, it's
easier than adjusting an outdoor one. Besides, at least OTA reception
is sometimes possible with an indoor antenna. AFAIK, no one has yet
managed that with a satellite dish. :-)


Patty

[Ant]

... AFAIK, no one has yet managed that with a satellite dish. :-)

I always wondered why you couldn't do it with a dish. Completely
different materials?

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Ant

... AFAIK, no one has yet managed that with a satellite dish. :-)

I always wondered why you couldn't do it with a dish. Completely
different materials?

Completely different signal modulation and frequency characteristics.

Patty was making a joke; the smiley was a clue to that...

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Ant

... AFAIK, no one has yet managed that with a satellite dish. :-)

I always wondered why you couldn't do it with a dish. Completely
different materials?

Completely different signal modulation and frequency
characteristics.
Patty was making a joke; the smiley was a clue to that...
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Also satellites are 1000 times further away and transmit 1/1000 as
much power as broadcast stations.

[Ant]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Ant

... AFAIK, no one has yet managed that with a satellite dish. :-)

I always wondered why you couldn't do it with a dish. Completely
different materials?

Completely different signal modulation and frequency
characteristics.
Patty was making a joke; the smiley was a clue to that...

Also satellites are 1000 times further away and transmit 1/1000 as
much power as broadcast stations.

I know that, but I was hoping there was a way to do with the dish. Like
Gene said, different signals and stuff.
--
"A marvelous creature. A model of specialization... Who else could suck
an ant up his nose and enjoy it?" --About anteaters, "B.C." strip by
Johnny Hart
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[Patty Winter]

[unneeded quotage deleted]

Post by Ant

Post by Jim Wilkins
Also satellites are 1000 times further away and transmit 1/1000 as
much power as broadcast stations.

I know that, but I was hoping there was a way to do with the dish. Like
Gene said, different signals and stuff.

Satellite signals for home TV can't even make it through a leaf. (As I
was reminded again recently when I had to go after my bougainvillea with
long-handled pruning shears.) No way they could make it through the side
of a house.


Patty

[Ant]

Post by Patty Winter
Satellite signals for home TV can't even make it through a leaf. (As I
was reminded again recently when I had to go after my bougainvillea with
long-handled pruning shears.) No way they could make it through the side
of a house.

Wow, even a leaf? What the heck?

[John McWilliams]

Post by Ant

Post by Patty Winter
Satellite signals for home TV can't even make it through a leaf. (As I
was reminded again recently when I had to go after my bougainvillea with
long-handled pruning shears.) No way they could make it through the side
of a house.

Wow, even a leaf? What the heck?

Well, not a single leaf, unless it was a banana leaf placed just
right.... Line of sight is critical, though; those waves don't bend..

[Ant]

Post by John McWilliams
Well, not a single leaf, unless it was a banana leaf placed just
right.... Line of sight is critical, though; those waves don't bend..

I thought these transmitted feeds can bounce off grounds and stuff too?

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Ant

Post by John McWilliams
Well, not a single leaf, unless it was a banana leaf placed just
right.... Line of sight is critical, though; those waves don't bend..

I thought these transmitted feeds can bounce off grounds and stuff too?
--

They bounce off the dish into the receiver amp. Reflections off
anything else would be harmful, out-of-phase multipath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-noise_block_downconverter
-jsw

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

Post by Ant

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Gene E. Bloch

Post by Ant

... AFAIK, no one has yet managed that with a satellite dish. :-)

I always wondered why you couldn't do it with a dish. Completely
different materials?

Completely different signal modulation and frequency
characteristics.
Patty was making a joke; the smiley was a clue to that...

Also satellites are 1000 times further away and transmit 1/1000 as
much power as broadcast stations.

I know that, but I was hoping there was a way to do with the dish. Like
Gene said, different signals and stuff.

Years ago, before DirecTV was including local TV stations in their
"spot" transmissions, they sometimes provided an OTA antenna that fit
"on" their dish antenna. I never tried one, but comments indicated
that they weren't very good. Of course that was before Digital OTA
also.

[Ant]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
Years ago, before DirecTV was including local TV stations in their
"spot" transmissions, they sometimes provided an OTA antenna that fit
"on" their dish antenna. I never tried one, but comments indicated
that they weren't very good. Of course that was before Digital OTA
also.

Interesting that DirecTV didn't include local stations. I wouldn't like
that to miss the local news! Did Dish also do this too?

I also had OTA for most my life. A couple years and now, I am with cable
again. I miss the free OTA TV! :(
--
"It is said that the lonely eagle flies to the mountain peaks while the
lowly ant crawls the ground, but cannot the soul of the ant soar as high
as the eagle?" --unknown
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[John McWilliams]

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
Years ago, before DirecTV was including local TV stations in their
"spot" transmissions, they sometimes provided an OTA antenna that fit
"on" their dish antenna. I never tried one, but comments indicated
that they weren't very good. Of course that was before Digital OTA
also.

Interesting that DirecTV didn't include local stations. I wouldn't like
that to miss the local news! Did Dish also do this too?
I also had OTA for most my life. A couple years and now, I am with cable
again. I miss the free OTA TV! :(

DIRECTV and Dish most definitely include locals throughout the country.
Not every single one, but a great many.

[Patty Winter]

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
Years ago, before DirecTV was including local TV stations in their
"spot" transmissions, they sometimes provided an OTA antenna that fit
"on" their dish antenna. I never tried one, but comments indicated
that they weren't very good. Of course that was before Digital OTA
also.

Interesting that DirecTV didn't include local stations. I wouldn't like
that to miss the local news! Did Dish also do this too?

Yes. As Charlie noted, the satellite companies needed the ability to
do "spot" transmissions to specific regions of the country before they
could start offering local stations. That required new satellites that
had transponders and antennae that could focus on a single region. Both
companies have offered locals for quite a few years now--10 or more, I
think.


Patty

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
Years ago, before DirecTV was including local TV stations in their
"spot" transmissions, they sometimes provided an OTA antenna that fit
"on" their dish antenna. I never tried one, but comments indicated
that they weren't very good. Of course that was before Digital OTA
also.

Interesting that DirecTV didn't include local stations. I wouldn't like
that to miss the local news! Did Dish also do this too?
I also had OTA for most my life. A couple years and now, I am with cable
again. I miss the free OTA TV! :(

Local station content via satellite requires somewhat different
technology.... beaming a signal to a smaller geographic area, or
rather a large number of different signals to a large number of
different geographical areas. As opposed to channels for which the
same content is beamed to the entire country, or even continent. Spot
signal transmission (or whatever it is technically called) came along
long after the original satellite delivery. So yes, although I have no
experience with Dish Network, I'd think that they also originally
delivered only content that was common to the entire country, and not
local channels.

The first DirecTV receivers that I had (SD content only of course) had
a satellite "tuner" and an OTA tuner. Also two coax connectors. so you
simply connected up one connector to the Dish and another to your OTA
antenna and you were in business.... at least I think that 's the way
it worked. It was also possible to "hack" those early systems, and
there were many neat instructions on-line about how to do marvelous
things with the equipment. (ex: www.dealdatabase.com/forum)

[John McWilliams]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
Years ago, before DirecTV was including local TV stations in their
"spot" transmissions, they sometimes provided an OTA antenna that fit
"on" their dish antenna. I never tried one, but comments indicated
that they weren't very good. Of course that was before Digital OTA
also.

Interesting that DirecTV didn't include local stations. I wouldn't like
that to miss the local news! Did Dish also do this too?
I also had OTA for most my life. A couple years and now, I am with cable
again. I miss the free OTA TV! :(

Local station content via satellite requires somewhat different
technology.... beaming a signal to a smaller geographic area, or
rather a large number of different signals to a large number of
different geographical areas. As opposed to channels for which the
same content is beamed to the entire country, or even continent. Spot
signal transmission (or whatever it is technically called) came along
long after the original satellite delivery. So yes, although I have no
experience with Dish Network, I'd think that they also originally
delivered only content that was common to the entire country, and not
local channels.
The first DirecTV receivers that I had (SD content only of course) had
a satellite "tuner" and an OTA tuner. Also two coax connectors. so you
simply connected up one connector to the Dish and another to your OTA
antenna and you were in business.... at least I think that 's the way
it worked. It was also possible to "hack" those early systems, and
there were many neat instructions on-line about how to do marvelous
things with the equipment. (ex: www.dealdatabase.com/forum)

Yes, that's the way it was, and still is, though now you need a separate
unit to integrate OTA with sat reception and recording.

[Les Cargill]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by whosbest54
I love my OTA programming and don't want it to go away. But the market seems
to say otherwise and that's disappointing.
whosbest54
--

Around here, >30 miles from the transmitters, OTA seems to be strictly
do-it-yourself. Radio Shack is slowly dropping the hardware.
-jsw

Parts Express is a lot what Radio Shack used to be. It's online, but you
apparently can't have everything.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by whosbest54
I love my OTA programming and don't want it to go away. But the market seems
to say otherwise and that's disappointing.
whosbest54
--

Around here, >30 miles from the transmitters, OTA seems to be
strictly
do-it-yourself. Radio Shack is slowly dropping the hardware.
-jsw

Parts Express is a lot what Radio Shack used to be. It's online, but you
apparently can't have everything.
--
Les Cargill

Yes, I buy things on line:
http://www.rotorservice.com/

Radio Shack is easy to monitor for trends by talking to the clerks,
for example how well hands-on tech like the Arduino etc sells to
students. I'm not sure how well we have passed on the ability to
create tech rather than only the desire to consume it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/emsi/2013/03/07/americas-skilled-trades-dilemma-shortages-loom-as-most-in-demand-group-of-workers-ages/

-jsw

[Sal M. O'Nella]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

PC Mag, more than once, predicted the death of the printer...
TV was going to kill radio...

It did. It was born again with AOR.

Post by Stephen
VHS/Beta/DVD was going to kill movie theatres...

It, again, did. New finance model resulting in many megaplexes.
Nearly every small town has a movie theater in some state of
disrepair.

I hope to hear more about this fascinating subject, but not until
the average Internet user has access to 150MB+ speeds that don't
cost a king's ransom each month. And for whoever wants to push all
this data through the pipe instead of the air I have two words: DATA CAPS.
==============================================================
I think you're right. I have a 200 GB/mo cap with my provider, Cox. I don’t
know what they do when a user exceeds the cap; I've never gotten close,
myself. It sounds like a lot but watching TV would go through 200GB fairly
quickly.

MY VERSION OF THE MATH: At 10 Mb/sec for a decent HD presentation, that’s 1
MB/sec or 1 GB every 1000 seconds. Since 1000 seconds is close to 15
minutes, one hour of streaming would use about 4 GB. Thus, my 200GB would
be gone when my family had streamed 50 hours of TV. Around here, that's
less than a week. An improved CODEC would improve the situation.

Please explain your reference to 150MB+ speeds. I'm paying for 20Mb, which
streams HD video pretty well. You may be right but I don't understand.

Thanks,
"Sal"

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by GrtArtiste

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Stephen
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:09:14 -0500, whosbest54

Post by whosbest54
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2470378,00.asp
"Don't hang up your over-the-air receivers yet, but the time is quickly
coming when Internet will be the only way to get audio and
video - and
the big broadcasters know it."
whosbest54

PC Mag, more than once, predicted the death of the printer...
TV was going to kill radio...

It did. It was born again with AOR.

Post by Stephen
VHS/Beta/DVD was going to kill movie theatres...

It, again, did. New finance model resulting in many megaplexes.
Nearly every small town has a movie theater in some state of
disrepair.

I hope to hear more about this fascinating subject, but not until
the average Internet user has access to 150MB+ speeds that don't
cost a king's ransom each month. And for whoever wants to push all
this data through the pipe instead of the air I have two words: DATA CAPS.
==============================================================
I think you're right. I have a 200 GB/mo cap with my provider, Cox.
I don’t know what they do when a user exceeds the cap; I've never
gotten close, myself. It sounds like a lot but watching TV would go
through 200GB fairly quickly.
MY VERSION OF THE MATH: At 10 Mb/sec for a decent HD presentation,
that’s 1 MB/sec or 1 GB every 1000 seconds. Since 1000 seconds is
close to 15 minutes, one hour of streaming would use about 4 GB.
Thus, my 200GB would be gone when my family had streamed 50 hours of
TV. Around here, that's less than a week. An improved CODEC would
improve the situation.
Please explain your reference to 150MB+ speeds. I'm paying for
20Mb, which streams HD video pretty well. You may be right but I
don't understand.
Thanks,
"Sal"

My OTA 1080i recordings average 6.5 GB per hour. SD is about 1.5 GB /
hour. The tuner is on a USB2 port with a measured (HDTune) max data
rate a little above 30 MB/S.

The maximum raw data rate for 1080i is slightly under 20 MB/S. It's
crammed into the 6 MHz wide legacy TV channels with an analog
modulation scheme that can't be used on the all-digital Internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8VSB
"In the 6 MHz (megahertz) channel used for broadcast ATSC, 8VSB
carries a symbol rate of 10.76 Mbaud, a gross bit rate of 32 Mbit/s,
and a net bit rate of 19.39 Mbit/s of usable data. The net bit rate is
lower due to the addition of forward error correction codes."

-jsw

[GrtArtiste]

Post by Sal M. O'Nella
Please explain your reference to 150MB+ speeds. I'm paying for 20Mb,
which streams HD video pretty well. You may be right but I don't
understand.

Yes, I'm sure it does...if you are the ONLY one using it at the time
and you are doing only one or two functions with the connection. On the
other hand...imagine 4 or possibly 6 users each wanting to stream one
program and maybe DVRing another at the same time. How much of a 150MB
connection is left?

[Ant]

Post by GrtArtiste

Post by Sal M. O'Nella
Please explain your reference to 150MB+ speeds. I'm paying for 20Mb,
which streams HD video pretty well. You may be right but I don't
understand.

Yes, I'm sure it does...if you are the ONLY one using it at the time
and you are doing only one or two functions with the connection. On the
other hand...imagine 4 or possibly 6 users each wanting to stream one
program and maybe DVRing another at the same time. How much of a 150MB
connection is left?

DVRing via Internet?

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 08:07:38 -0700, Ant <***@zimage.comANT> wrote:
<snip>

Post by Ant
DVRing via Internet?

Sure, I do that frequently with DirecTV VOD.

[Ant]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
<snip>

Post by Ant
DVRing via Internet?

Sure, I do that frequently with DirecTV VOD.

Ah. Watching your videos streamed from your DVR.

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
<snip>

Post by Ant
DVRing via Internet?

Sure, I do that frequently with DirecTV VOD.

Ah. Watching your videos streamed from your DVR.

Well, maybe you could call it streaming. My internet access is so poor
we're not able to "Stream" content.... that is watch while it is
downloading..... except maybe after 2:00 AM and before 6:00 AM. So we
"download" VOD content to the recorder, then view it whenever we want.
It sometimes takes 8 hours to download a 2 hour movie that way. I got
a kick out of the 150 MB+ comment earlier in this thread. Heck, I'm
paying over $100/mo for unreliable 5 MB service.

[Ant]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
<snip>

Post by Ant
DVRing via Internet?

Sure, I do that frequently with DirecTV VOD.

Ah. Watching your videos streamed from your DVR.

Well, maybe you could call it streaming. My internet access is so poor
we're not able to "Stream" content.... that is watch while it is
downloading..... except maybe after 2:00 AM and before 6:00 AM. So we
"download" VOD content to the recorder, then view it whenever we want.
It sometimes takes 8 hours to download a 2 hour movie that way. I got
a kick out of the 150 MB+ comment earlier in this thread. Heck, I'm
paying over $100/mo for unreliable 5 MB service.

DirecTV can't stream like cable TV OTA from their satellites? I only
have experiences with Internet and cable TV services.
--
"You know what you are Earl? You're a little, tiny, busy ant. You too,
Mike. Both you guys, with your mortgages and your term life insurance
and your webber kettles(??). Ant. Ant. All of you, you're all a bunch of
little, busy, blind ants. All you all. Saving up for your rainy days.
Scratching up your acorns for the winter. You look at me and you think,
"What a piece of pathetic trash out there in that leaky trailer." No
spoon, no fork, no prospects. But, you know why? Cause I'm a
grasshopper. Ant. Grasshopper. Ant. Grasshopper. Ant. Grasshopper. Ant.
Grasshopper. Ant!" --Chris in the bar, before being thrown out in "Jaws
of Life"."
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[John McWilliams]

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
<snip>

Post by Ant
DVRing via Internet?

Sure, I do that frequently with DirecTV VOD.

Ah. Watching your videos streamed from your DVR.

Well, maybe you could call it streaming. My internet access is so poor
we're not able to "Stream" content.... that is watch while it is
downloading..... except maybe after 2:00 AM and before 6:00 AM. So we
"download" VOD content to the recorder, then view it whenever we want.
It sometimes takes 8 hours to download a 2 hour movie that way. I got
a kick out of the 150 MB+ comment earlier in this thread. Heck, I'm
paying over $100/mo for unreliable 5 MB service.

DirecTV can't stream like cable TV OTA from their satellites? I only
have experiences with Internet and cable TV services.

DIRECTV® broadcasts via satellites, but VOD is streamed or downloaded
over the internet.

BTW, "cable TV OTA" is contradictory.

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by John McWilliams

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
<snip>

Post by Ant
DVRing via Internet?

Sure, I do that frequently with DirecTV VOD.

Ah. Watching your videos streamed from your DVR.

Well, maybe you could call it streaming. My internet access is so poor
we're not able to "Stream" content.... that is watch while it is
downloading..... except maybe after 2:00 AM and before 6:00 AM. So we
"download" VOD content to the recorder, then view it whenever we want.
It sometimes takes 8 hours to download a 2 hour movie that way. I got
a kick out of the 150 MB+ comment earlier in this thread. Heck, I'm
paying over $100/mo for unreliable 5 MB service.

DirecTV can't stream like cable TV OTA from their satellites? I only
have experiences with Internet and cable TV services.

DIRECTV® broadcasts via satellites, but VOD is streamed or downloaded
over the internet.
BTW, "cable TV OTA" is contradictory.

Parsing :-)

I think Ant meant "OTA" to refer to the satellite.

Sort of this:

"DirecTV can't stream OTA from their satellites, somewhat like cable TV
streams over their wire?

Still, although satellite signals come in over the air, it isn't what we
usually mean when we say OTA.

BTW, I didn't know that DirecTV streams VOD over the Internet, but after
a moment's reflection, I see that implies very strongly that I wasn't
thinking :-)

[Ant]

Post by John McWilliams

Post by Ant
DirecTV can't stream like cable TV OTA from their satellites? I only
have experiences with Internet and cable TV services.

DIRECTV® broadcasts via satellites, but VOD is streamed or downloaded
over the internet.

Ah... I thought satellite TV services could do VoD in real time like
cable TV services. Interesting.

Post by John McWilliams
BTW, "cable TV OTA" is contradictory.

I was trying to say stream over the air (OTA) like cable TV through
cables. I messed up in my saying. ;)

[John McWilliams]

Post by Ant

Post by John McWilliams

Post by Ant
DirecTV can't stream like cable TV OTA from their satellites? I only
have experiences with Internet and cable TV services.

DIRECTV® broadcasts via satellites, but VOD is streamed or downloaded
over the internet.

Ah... I thought satellite TV services could do VoD in real time like
cable TV services. Interesting.

Well, they can if you have broadband.

Post by Ant

Post by John McWilliams
BTW, "cable TV OTA" is contradictory.

I was trying to say stream over the air (OTA) like cable TV through
cables. I messed up in my saying. ;)

No problem.... But OTA is broadcast, not streaming as it's generally
used. And OTA isn't satellite as term is generally used; it's simply the
original way TV was sent out, over the air, picked up by antennas.

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
<snip>

Post by Ant
DVRing via Internet?

Sure, I do that frequently with DirecTV VOD.

Ah. Watching your videos streamed from your DVR.

Well, maybe you could call it streaming. My internet access is so poor
we're not able to "Stream" content.... that is watch while it is
downloading..... except maybe after 2:00 AM and before 6:00 AM. So we
"download" VOD content to the recorder, then view it whenever we want.
It sometimes takes 8 hours to download a 2 hour movie that way. I got
a kick out of the 150 MB+ comment earlier in this thread. Heck, I'm
paying over $100/mo for unreliable 5 MB service.

DirecTV can't stream like cable TV OTA from their satellites? I only
have experiences with Internet and cable TV services.

NO.... think about it. That would require a beam specifically to one
household. The whole idea of satellite transmission, even of local
stations, is to send the same signal to a large number of households
in one geographical area. The only way to "stream" from DirecTV and/or
Dish Network is over the internet.

[Ant]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by Ant
DirecTV can't stream like cable TV OTA from their satellites? I only
have experiences with Internet and cable TV services.

NO.... think about it. That would require a beam specifically to one
household. The whole idea of satellite transmission, even of local
stations, is to send the same signal to a large number of households
in one geographical area. The only way to "stream" from DirecTV and/or
Dish Network is over the internet.

Ah, thanks. :) I wonder if OTA TV stations could do it since they never
moves like satellites.

[John McWilliams]

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by Ant
DirecTV can't stream like cable TV OTA from their satellites? I only
have experiences with Internet and cable TV services.

NO.... think about it. That would require a beam specifically to one
household. The whole idea of satellite transmission, even of local
stations, is to send the same signal to a large number of households
in one geographical area. The only way to "stream" from DirecTV and/or
Dish Network is over the internet.

Ah, thanks. :) I wonder if OTA TV stations could do it since they never
moves like satellites.

OTA generally has no bandwidth to spare.

And, really, satellites aren't moving in a meaningful sense; they are
virtually stationary over a fixed point on earth.

[John McWilliams]

Post by Ant

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir
<snip>

Post by Ant
DVRing via Internet?

Sure, I do that frequently with DirecTV VOD.

Ah. Watching your videos streamed from your DVR.

Not streamed here. Downloaded at slow speeds but HD @1080i. One can
stream HQ stuff from the Net via DIRECTV® if one's ISP provides enough
giddy-up.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by Stephen
PC Mag, more than once, predicted the death of the printer...
http://www.youtube.com/embed/V_gOZDWQj3Q?rel=0