Digital clocks

[r***@optonline.net]

I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.

I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be? Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?

Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be?

Quite far and needlessly so, but clocks using the 60Hz power line frequency
may have disappeared. As well as adjustments of the crystal frequency.

My FM HD Radio gains about a minute a month, my weather station loses about
two minutes a month.

The digital clock I build decades ago uses the power line frequency and is
set to WWV or WWVH using a $10 "atomic clock". (Four built)

Perfectly dead on unless the power fails.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?

I do not have cable but the time display on my HDTV varies from station to
station, often by a large amount.

Want the correct time, have your computer automaically check the time, all
my windows computers connected to the internet do so.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

Google "atomic clock", this one has a big display but perhaps no backlight.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/15042707?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=3&adid=22222222227000580778&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=41994409870&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=34446143110&veh=sem

SHF

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Stephen H. Fischer

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the
entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an
oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be?

Quite far and needlessly so, but clocks using the 60Hz power line
frequency may have disappeared. As well as adjustments of the
crystal frequency.
My FM HD Radio gains about a minute a month, my weather station
loses about two minutes a month.
The digital clock I build decades ago uses the power line frequency
and is set to WWV or WWVH using a $10 "atomic clock". (Four built)
Perfectly dead on unless the power fails.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?

I do not have cable but the time display on my HDTV varies from
station to station, often by a large amount.
Want the correct time, have your computer automaically check the
time, all my windows computers connected to the internet do so.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

Google "atomic clock", this one has a big display but perhaps no backlight.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/15042707?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=3&adid=22222222227000580778&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=41994409870&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=34446143110&veh=sem
SHF

On New Years I noticed that the Times Square countdown clock on TV was
many (~7?) seconds different from my two 'atomic' clocks, which agree
with each other.
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
jsw

[James Daniel Bishop]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 22:31:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen H. Fischer

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the
entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an
oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be?

Quite far and needlessly so, but clocks using the 60Hz power line
frequency may have disappeared. As well as adjustments of the
crystal frequency.
My FM HD Radio gains about a minute a month, my weather station
loses about two minutes a month.
The digital clock I build decades ago uses the power line frequency
and is set to WWV or WWVH using a $10 "atomic clock". (Four built)
Perfectly dead on unless the power fails.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?

I do not have cable but the time display on my HDTV varies from
station to station, often by a large amount.
Want the correct time, have your computer automaically check the
time, all my windows computers connected to the internet do so.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

Google "atomic clock", this one has a big display but perhaps no backlight.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/15042707?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=3&adid=22222222227000580778&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=41994409870&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=34446143110&veh=sem
SHF

On New Years I noticed that the Times Square countdown clock on TV was
many (~7?) seconds different from my two 'atomic' clocks, which agree
with each other.
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
jsw

The reason the "Live" feed was delayed was the satellite delay of the
signal from New York and the Station. If you were watching a local
channel on a satellite service thar will be double delay, as the
station get the signal by satellite and the satellite service uplinks
it to you.
James Daniel Bishop

[UCLAN]

Post by James Daniel Bishop
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 22:31:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen H. Fischer

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an
oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be?

Quite far and needlessly so, but clocks using the 60Hz power line
frequency may have disappeared. As well as adjustments of the
crystal frequency.
My FM HD Radio gains about a minute a month, my weather station
loses about two minutes a month.
The digital clock I build decades ago uses the power line frequency
and is set to WWV or WWVH using a $10 "atomic clock". (Four built)
Perfectly dead on unless the power fails.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?

I do not have cable but the time display on my HDTV varies from
station to station, often by a large amount.
Want the correct time, have your computer automaically check the
time, all my windows computers connected to the internet do so.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

Google "atomic clock", this one has a big display but perhaps no backlight.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/15042707?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=3&adid=22222222227000580778&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=41994409870&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=34446143110&veh=sem
SHF

On New Years I noticed that the Times Square countdown clock on TV was
many (~7?) seconds different from my two 'atomic' clocks, which agree
with each other.
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
jsw

The reason the "Live" feed was delayed was the satellite delay of the
signal from New York and the Station. If you were watching a local
channel on a satellite service thar will be double delay, as the
station get the signal by satellite and the satellite service uplinks
it to you.

Plus, there's the FCC mandated 7 second delay on all "live" telecasts.

[Alan]

Post by UCLAN

Post by James Daniel Bishop
The reason the "Live" feed was delayed was the satellite delay of the
signal from New York and the Station. If you were watching a local
channel on a satellite service thar will be double delay, as the
station get the signal by satellite and the satellite service uplinks
it to you.

Plus, there's the FCC mandated 7 second delay on all "live" telecasts.

If there is such a FCC mandate, where is it in the rules? A search through
part 73 doesn't find it.

Alan

[UCLAN]

Post by Alan

Post by UCLAN

Post by James Daniel Bishop
The reason the "Live" feed was delayed was the satellite delay of the
signal from New York and the Station. If you were watching a local
channel on a satellite service thar will be double delay, as the
station get the signal by satellite and the satellite service uplinks
it to you.

Plus, there's the FCC mandated 7 second delay on all "live" telecasts.

If there is such a FCC mandate, where is it in the rules? A search through
part 73 doesn't find it.

It was added after the infamous "wardrobe malfunction" of Janet Jackson during
halftime of Super Bowl XXXVIII. Not sure in which section it resides.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Alan

Post by UCLAN

Post by James Daniel Bishop
The reason the "Live" feed was delayed was the satellite delay of the
signal from New York and the Station. If you were watching a local
channel on a satellite service thar will be double delay, as the
station get the signal by satellite and the satellite service uplinks
it to you.

Plus, there's the FCC mandated 7 second delay on all "live"
telecasts.

If there is such a FCC mandate, where is it in the rules? A search through
part 73 doesn't find it.

It was added after the infamous "wardrobe malfunction" of Janet Jackson during
halftime of Super Bowl XXXVIII. Not sure in which section it
resides.

Jim Carrey just wondered if the Golden Globes were using a 7 second
delay, to cut something he had said. That suggests it's optional.

[UCLAN]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
It was added after the infamous "wardrobe malfunction" of Janet Jackson during
halftime of Super Bowl XXXVIII. Not sure in which section it
resides.

Jim Carrey just wondered if the Golden Globes were using a 7 second
delay, to cut something he had said. That suggests it's optional.

Or that Jim Carey was unsure one way or the other.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
It was added after the infamous "wardrobe malfunction" of Janet Jackson during
halftime of Super Bowl XXXVIII. Not sure in which section it
resides.

Jim Carrey just wondered if the Golden Globes were using a 7 second
delay, to cut something he had said. That suggests it's optional.

Or that Jim Carey was unsure one way or the other.

If the delay was mandatory he, Robin Williams, Sarah Silverman, Tina
Fey, Melissa McCarthy et al would definitely know about it.
http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/tina-fey-amy-poehler-joke-supermodel-vaginas-prosthetic-genitals-golden-globes-2014131
"The broadcast actually blacked out momentarily on the tail end of
this joke, as if the NBC censors had tried and failed to catch it."

[UCLAN]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
It was added after the infamous "wardrobe malfunction" of Janet Jackson during
halftime of Super Bowl XXXVIII. Not sure in which section it resides.

Jim Carrey just wondered if the Golden Globes were using a 7 second
delay, to cut something he had said. That suggests it's optional.

Or that Jim Carey was unsure one way or the other.

If the delay was mandatory he, Robin Williams, Sarah Silverman, Tina
Fey, Melissa McCarthy et al would definitely know about it.
http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/tina-fey-amy-poehler-joke-supermodel-vaginas-prosthetic-genitals-golden-globes-2014131
"The broadcast actually blacked out momentarily on the tail end of
this joke, as if the NBC censors had tried and failed to catch it."

During Diane Keaton's speech during the Woody Allen tribute, a couple of
sections had the audio blanked out. Hard to do that without the delay.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
It was added after the infamous "wardrobe malfunction" of Janet Jackson during
halftime of Super Bowl XXXVIII. Not sure in which section it resides.

Jim Carrey just wondered if the Golden Globes were using a 7 second
delay, to cut something he had said. That suggests it's optional.

Or that Jim Carey was unsure one way or the other.

If the delay was mandatory he, Robin Williams, Sarah Silverman, Tina
Fey, Melissa McCarthy et al would definitely know about it.
http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/tina-fey-amy-poehler-joke-supermodel-vaginas-prosthetic-genitals-golden-globes-2014131
"The broadcast actually blacked out momentarily on the tail end of
this joke, as if the NBC censors had tried and failed to catch it."

During Diane Keaton's speech during the Woody Allen tribute, a
couple of
sections had the audio blanked out. Hard to do that without the delay.

Easy to do with a copy of the script.

[UCLAN]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
During Diane Keaton's speech during the Woody Allen tribute, a couple of
sections had the audio blanked out. Hard to do that without the delay.

Easy to do with a copy of the script.

You're suggesting that her comments about her life with Woody were
part of some script? Next, you'll be telling me that the acceptance
speeches are also part of this script.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
During Diane Keaton's speech during the Woody Allen tribute, a couple of
sections had the audio blanked out. Hard to do that without the delay.

Easy to do with a copy of the script.

You're suggesting that her comments about her life with Woody were
part of some script? Next, you'll be telling me that the acceptance
speeches are also part of this script.

Sit down, relax, take your shoes off, pour a martini, try to be as
poised and classy as Emma Thompson. This started when I commented on
noticing a 7 second delay at New Years.

Very obviously the predictable parts of the show were scripted, as
when the wrong presenters' material appeared on the Teleprompter, and
the acceptance speeches weren't, like Jacqueline Bisset's confused
mumbling. Even co-host Amy Poehler stumbled without a rehearsed script
when she won.

[UCLAN]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
During Diane Keaton's speech during the Woody Allen tribute, a couple of
sections had the audio blanked out. Hard to do that without the delay.

Easy to do with a copy of the script.

You're suggesting that her comments about her life with Woody were
part of some script? Next, you'll be telling me that the acceptance
speeches are also part of this script.

Sit down, relax, take your shoes off, pour a martini, try to be as
poised and classy as Emma Thompson. This started when I commented on
noticing a 7 second delay at New Years.
Very obviously the predictable parts of the show were scripted, as
when the wrong presenters' material appeared on the Teleprompter, and
the acceptance speeches weren't, like Jacqueline Bisset's confused
mumbling. Even co-host Amy Poehler stumbled without a rehearsed script
when she won.

Fine, but that doesn't answer the question of if you *really* think
Keaton's words were part of some script. Do you?

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
During Diane Keaton's speech during the Woody Allen tribute, a couple of
sections had the audio blanked out. Hard to do that without the delay.

Easy to do with a copy of the script.

You're suggesting that her comments about her life with Woody were
part of some script? Next, you'll be telling me that the
acceptance
speeches are also part of this script.

Sit down, relax, take your shoes off, pour a martini, try to be as
poised and classy as Emma Thompson. This started when I commented on
noticing a 7 second delay at New Years.
Very obviously the predictable parts of the show were scripted, as
when the wrong presenters' material appeared on the Teleprompter, and
the acceptance speeches weren't, like Jacqueline Bisset's confused
mumbling. Even co-host Amy Poehler stumbled without a rehearsed script
when she won.

Fine, but that doesn't answer the question of if you *really* think
Keaton's words were part of some script. Do you?

Why are you so obsessed with this?

I don't have to fantasize about what might have happened, it's all
here:
http://theweek.com/article/index/255011/watch-all-the-censored-moments-from-last-nights-golden-globes-ceremony

If you want to see the limit of what's tolerated in primetime, watch
"2 Broke Girls".
jsw

[UCLAN]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
During Diane Keaton's speech during the Woody Allen tribute, a couple of
sections had the audio blanked out. Hard to do that without the delay.

Easy to do with a copy of the script.

You're suggesting that her comments about her life with Woody were
part of some script? Next, you'll be telling me that the
acceptance
speeches are also part of this script.

Sit down, relax, take your shoes off, pour a martini, try to be as
poised and classy as Emma Thompson. This started when I commented on
noticing a 7 second delay at New Years.
Very obviously the predictable parts of the show were scripted, as
when the wrong presenters' material appeared on the Teleprompter, and
the acceptance speeches weren't, like Jacqueline Bisset's confused
mumbling. Even co-host Amy Poehler stumbled without a rehearsed script
when she won.

Fine, but that doesn't answer the question of if you *really* think
Keaton's words were part of some script. Do you?

Why are you so obsessed with this?

Obsessed? I asked a simple question about a statement you made. That's
obsessed?

[Bill Gill]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by UCLAN
During Diane Keaton's speech during the Woody Allen tribute, a couple of
sections had the audio blanked out. Hard to do that without the delay.

Easy to do with a copy of the script.

You're suggesting that her comments about her life with Woody were
part of some script? Next, you'll be telling me that the
acceptance
speeches are also part of this script.

Sit down, relax, take your shoes off, pour a martini, try to be as
poised and classy as Emma Thompson. This started when I commented on
noticing a 7 second delay at New Years.
Very obviously the predictable parts of the show were scripted, as
when the wrong presenters' material appeared on the Teleprompter, and
the acceptance speeches weren't, like Jacqueline Bisset's confused
mumbling. Even co-host Amy Poehler stumbled without a rehearsed script
when she won.

Fine, but that doesn't answer the question of if you *really* think
Keaton's words were part of some script. Do you?

Why are you so obsessed with this?
I don't have to fantasize about what might have happened, it's all
http://theweek.com/article/index/255011/watch-all-the-censored-moments-from-last-nights-golden-globes-ceremony
If you want to see the limit of what's tolerated in primetime, watch
"2 Broke Girls".
jsw

And I still remember the furor when they clipped a joke out of the
Tonight Show. The Joke: Have you heard the song about the 2 story
outhouse? You know "Big John".

Bill

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Post by Bill Gill
And I still remember the furor when they clipped a joke out of the
Tonight Show. The Joke: Have you heard the song about the 2 story
outhouse? You know "Big John".
Bill

Google "two story outhouse" and a huge number comes up with pictures.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by UCLAN

Post by James Daniel Bishop
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 22:31:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen H. Fischer

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door,
and
I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box
also
sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as
far
as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an
oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be?

Quite far and needlessly so, but clocks using the 60Hz power line
frequency may have disappeared. As well as adjustments of the
crystal frequency.
My FM HD Radio gains about a minute a month, my weather station
loses about two minutes a month.
The digital clock I build decades ago uses the power line
frequency
and is set to WWV or WWVH using a $10 "atomic clock". (Four
built)
Perfectly dead on unless the power fails.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?

I do not have cable but the time display on my HDTV varies from
station to station, often by a large amount.
Want the correct time, have your computer automaically check the
time, all my windows computers connected to the internet do so.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and
I
haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

Google "atomic clock", this one has a big display but perhaps no backlight.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/15042707?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=3&adid=22222222227000580778&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=41994409870&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=34446143110&veh=sem
SHF

On New Years I noticed that the Times Square countdown clock on TV was
many (~7?) seconds different from my two 'atomic' clocks, which agree
with each other.
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
jsw

The reason the "Live" feed was delayed was the satellite delay of the
signal from New York and the Station. If you were watching a local
channel on a satellite service thar will be double delay, as the
station get the signal by satellite and the satellite service
uplinks
it to you.

Plus, there's the FCC mandated 7 second delay on all "live"
telecasts.

That makes sense, considering that Jenny McCarthy was hosting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_delay

[Alan]

Post by James Daniel Bishop
The reason the "Live" feed was delayed was the satellite delay of the
signal from New York and the Station. If you were watching a local
channel on a satellite service thar will be double delay, as the
station get the signal by satellite and the satellite service uplinks
it to you.

In addition to the satellite transmission time (up and back), there is
the time required for the digital encoding of the signal (it isn't instant),
and the time for decoding in your receiver (again, not instant).

If you go to a store showing several different brands of TV sets showing
the same program, you can sometimes see differences in the decoding time
as different sets flash from one scene to the next at slightly different
moments. This shows the difference in decode time, but not the total time
involved.

Alan

[Bill Gill]

Post by James Daniel Bishop
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 22:31:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Stephen H. Fischer

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an
oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be?

Quite far and needlessly so, but clocks using the 60Hz power line
frequency may have disappeared. As well as adjustments of the
crystal frequency.
My FM HD Radio gains about a minute a month, my weather station
loses about two minutes a month.
The digital clock I build decades ago uses the power line frequency
and is set to WWV or WWVH using a $10 "atomic clock". (Four built)
Perfectly dead on unless the power fails.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?

I do not have cable but the time display on my HDTV varies from
station to station, often by a large amount.
Want the correct time, have your computer automaically check the
time, all my windows computers connected to the internet do so.

Post by r***@optonline.net
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

Google "atomic clock", this one has a big display but perhaps no backlight.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/15042707?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=3&adid=22222222227000580778&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=41994409870&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=34446143110&veh=sem
SHF

On New Years I noticed that the Times Square countdown clock on TV was
many (~7?) seconds different from my two 'atomic' clocks, which agree
with each other.
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
jsw

The reason the "Live" feed was delayed was the satellite delay of the
signal from New York and the Station. If you were watching a local
channel on a satellite service thar will be double delay, as the
station get the signal by satellite and the satellite service uplinks
it to you.
James Daniel Bishop

Actually the satellite delay isn't that big. At an altitude of
23,000 miles the delay is about a quarter of a second per hop.
I will say that is enough to drive you crazy in some circumstances.
I worked at a satellite communications station back in the late
60s. One of the other stations had an open mike for the hot
line between stations. If you called that station your own
voice would come back to you after about the first word as
a loud echo. Very distracting.

Bill

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Bill Gill
Actually the satellite delay isn't that big. At an altitude of
23,000 miles the delay is about a quarter of a second per hop.
I will say that is enough to drive you crazy in some circumstances.
I worked at a satellite communications station back in the late
60s. One of the other stations had an open mike for the hot
line between stations. If you called that station your own
voice would come back to you after about the first word as
a loud echo. Very distracting.
Bill

I've measured the bit error rate of a satellite comm link so I know
about the delay. It's strange to actually see a signal disappear into
the emptyness of space and then return perfectly intact after a
noticeable wait.
jsw

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be? Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

So-called "Atomic" clocks available at Walmart and on-line reset
themselves to wwv daily, so they are accurate immediately after
resetting themselves, and for as long as they can keep time
afterwards, but since they correct every 24 hours, they are usually
within a second at any time. They used to be rather expensive, but the
prices have dropped a lot now, and if you want accurate time, they are
essential.

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Post by Charlie Hoffpauir

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the
entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be? Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

So-called "Atomic" clocks available at Walmart and on-line reset
themselves to wwv daily, so they are accurate immediately after
resetting themselves, and for as long as they can keep time
afterwards, but since they correct every 24 hours, they are usually
within a second at any time. They used to be rather expensive, but the
prices have dropped a lot now, and if you want accurate time, they are
essential.

Hi,

Is my face RED!

It's WWVB that broadcasts the 60 kHz signal, 1 bit per second!

October 29, 2012 they started to broadcast a new format as well as the old
format.

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwvb.cfm

SHF

[Alan]

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be? Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?

Yes, a clock oscillator is probably "more or less accurate", but not likely
to be perfectly accurate. As a result, it will drift. Cheap ones may drift
a second or two a day, serious money will get into fraction of a second per year.

The cable box most likely gets a signal over the cable to reset it. How
accurate that signal is depends on the care of the provider.

Alan

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the entertainment
cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured glass door, and I use it
because it has big red numbers and I can see it. My cable box also sits in the
cabinet and it's difficult to see the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as the time
goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an oscillator and was
more or less accurate. How far off can an oscillator be? Or does the cable
company periodically re-adjust the time on their box?
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that won't cost me a
bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load of them and I haven't gone
through them all. Thanks.

look for one that synchronizes with the national atomic clock.
Ba-da-bing!

[Bert]

Post by r***@optonline.net
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as
the time goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an
oscillator and was more or less accurate.

Less accurate.

There's no reason to think that a $10 digital clock from Target is going
to be as accurate as even a $50 Timex.

The age of accurate desk and wall clocks, synced to the AC line
frequency, is over.

Post by r***@optonline.net
How far off can an oscillator be?

How far off has your clock been?

Post by r***@optonline.net
Or does the cable company periodically re-adjust the time on their
box?

Yes.

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Post by Bert

Post by r***@optonline.net
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as
the time goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an
oscillator and was more or less accurate.

Less accurate.
There's no reason to think that a $10 digital clock from Target is going
to be as accurate as even a $50 Timex.

But an atomic clock, ~ $20 one would be. Yes, at Target. More accurate
really.

I like the looks of this one, $24.99 plus tax, shipping, gas to store ...

http://www.target.com/p/sharp-atomic-dual-alarm-clock/-/A-14599887#prodSlot=dlp_medium_1_5&term=atomic+clock

It looks like it would be readable at a distance. Next trip to Target I will
look at it. I have to press the top of my current atomic to light up the
backlight to read even during the day.

Post by Bert
The age of accurate desk and wall clocks, synced to the AC line
frequency, is over.

It appears to be so. I remember reading that the power companies no longer
adjust their power line frequency to keep clocks on time over the long
(hours / days) period.

Until I got my $10 atomic clock I used WWV / WWVH to set my synced to the AC
line frequency clocks which I started doing before 1960 when I got my first
short wave radio.

Post by Bert

Post by r***@optonline.net
How far off can an oscillator be?

How far off has your clock been?

Post by r***@optonline.net
Or does the cable company periodically re-adjust the time on their
box?

Yes.
--

The worst time to sync an atomic clock to WWVB, 1400 UTC.

My location in California has no coverage at that time, something that I
have observed.

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by r***@optonline.net
I have a digital clock, actually, alarm clock, sitting in the
entertainment cabinet that my TV sits on. It's behind a textured
glass door, and I use it because it has big red numbers and I can see
it. My cable box also sits in the cabinet and it's difficult to see
the digital readout because of the doors.
I am constantly synching the digital clock to my cable box as far as
the time goes. Why is this? I thought a digital clock worked on an
oscillator and was more or less accurate. How far off can an
oscillator be? Or does the cable company periodically re-adjust the
time on their box?
Does anyone know of a goodm accurate digital read out clock that
won't cost me a bundle? I've checked on line and there's a crap load
of them and I haven't gone through them all. Thanks.

I used to have Comcast cable. The clock on the front of the Motorola
DCX3400-M STB was always accurate to the second, according to WWV
shortwave time signals.

My Verizon cell phone is generally around 15 seconds fast, although I
have an app that claims +- 200 msec accuracy from "an external high
precision NTP time server".

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=bz.bsb.sidereal

There's also a pay version.

Note that the many GPS test programs available for Android ought to
have accurate time displays (except those without a time display!),
since to get a good fix, the time has to be known to a few nanoseconds.

[Jim Wilkins]

Post by Gene E. Bloch
Note that the many GPS test programs available for Android ought to
have accurate time displays (except those without a time display!),
since to get a good fix, the time has to be known to a few
nanoseconds.
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

However GPS time is 16 seconds ahead of UTC (official) time.
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
because UTC has been adjusted to make up the observed difference
between a calendar year and the Earth's orbital period relative to the
stars.
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leapsec.html
jsw

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Jim Wilkins

Post by Gene E. Bloch
Note that the many GPS test programs available for Android ought to
have accurate time displays (except those without a time display!),
since to get a good fix, the time has to be known to a few
nanoseconds.
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

However GPS time is 16 seconds ahead of UTC (official) time.
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
because UTC has been adjusted to make up the observed difference
between a calendar year and the Earth's orbital period relative to
the stars.
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leapsec.html
jsw

Interesting. I should have been aware of that.

Or maybe not - but I was (at least vaguely) aware there have been
changes in the use of leap seconds recently (or soon), as in UTC vs
ephemeris time.

It certainly makes sense: I'd guess that it would be a mess to be
always changing the clocks in the satellites, or the master clock that
runs them.

And now I wonder if the clock that Verizon uses relates to GPS.

But we forgot about the intelligence of programmers: I decided to test
my GPS apps.

I have two GPS test programs on my phone. One doesn't display the time,
so it's home free. The other does, and it agrees with WWV 10Mhz.
Actually, a half-second slow. Obviously the programmer compensated for
what you knew and I didn't.

To be fair, the time displays are labeled UTC Time and Local Time, not
satellite time or ephemeris time.

The program is
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.chartcross.gpstest&feature=search_result

[Alan]

Post by Jim Wilkins
However GPS time is 16 seconds ahead of UTC (official) time.
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
because UTC has been adjusted to make up the observed difference
between a calendar year and the Earth's orbital period relative to the
stars.
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leapsec.html

The GPS - UTC offset is included in the data transmitted from the GPS
satellites. GPS receivers generally include the correction when they display
the time. (I say generally, because some very old ones apparently had a
fixed correction in them - which became an obviously bad idea when the offset
changed.)

To get this into the HDTV subject again, the time included in the ATSC PSIP
is GPS time, and the offset is sent in the time message. The receiver is
responsible for adjusting received value to UTC. However, many stations have
fixed valued in their equipment which apparently must me manually set, as
a large number of stations in the San Francisco Bay area are indicating an
offset of 15 seconds, and one or two are indicating 14 seconds. The correct
value is 16 seconds, which a few stations actually indicate.

The errors in this value are, for many stations, small compared to the larger
errors in their time values sent.

THey are supposed to keep it within one second. Generally, they don't.

Alan

[Stephen H. Fischer]

...

Post by Alan
a large number of stations in the San Francisco Bay area are indicating an
offset of 15 seconds, and one or two are indicating 14 seconds. The correct
value is 16 seconds, which a few stations actually indicate.

...

Post by Alan
Alan

Hi,

Watch the time shown by KMTP.

It currently appears to be ~ 2 minutes fast when compared to the other
stations. I have seen it hours wrong as well as the date being wrong.

I have been bashing that station for many years and finally gave up
completely, it no longer was fun.

They REFUSED, yes REFUSED to even discuss the silly program listings they
were publishing. A monkey in the British museum could do a better job if it
was deaf and blind and had it's hands cut off.

They also changed from PST to PDT and back to PST on a unpredictable
schedule. They once got it right five weeks late and then went back to wrong
at years end.

They put a bid in for KCSM which was rejected as they were found to have no
money.

Most of their money comes from cable companies for carrying their programs.

Found in the bid documents for KCSM.

SHF

[Gene E. Bloch]

Post by Stephen H. Fischer
...

Post by Alan
a large number of stations in the San Francisco Bay area are
indicating an
offset of 15 seconds, and one or two are indicating 14 seconds.
The correct
value is 16 seconds, which a few stations actually indicate.

...

Post by Alan
Alan

Hi,
Watch the time shown by KMTP.
It currently appears to be ~ 2 minutes fast when compared to the
other stations. I have seen it hours wrong as well as the date being
wrong.
I have been bashing that station for many years and finally gave up
completely, it no longer was fun.
They REFUSED, yes REFUSED to even discuss the silly program listings
they were publishing. A monkey in the British museum could do a
better job if it was deaf and blind and had it's hands cut off.
They also changed from PST to PDT and back to PST on a unpredictable
schedule. They once got it right five weeks late and then went back
to wrong at years end.
They put a bid in for KCSM which was rejected as they were found to
have no money.
Most of their money comes from cable companies for carrying their programs.
Found in the bid documents for KCSM.
SHF

Now you make me want to watch that station just to see how bad it might
be :-)

Well, I do get it (satellite only). 480i 4:3, and looking at the guide,
it seems to be largely DW material. I assume that's Deutschewelle.

They didn't display the time while I was watching it...but while I was
there, I forgot to check whether the Weather Channel is available :-)

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Hi,


"In Focus" was the only DW program that I watched.

Best program:

How do you remove a sunken luxury car carrier from the middle of the English
channel?

You saw it into pieces using a diamond bead studded cable. The drive shaft
was the hardest part.

Several years ago, they changed the program and I deleted most captures.
------------------------
I have been seeing some good subtitles lately but have not scheduled any as
I am in NAS free up space mode getting ready for the Sochi 2014 Olympics.

(1TB drive just replaced in my NAS, rebuilding the RAID 1 for the next three
hours plus. Drive failed!)

They were listing six or seven "In Focus" daily of which NONE were "In
Focus". I just blocked the station.

Tribune media services, one of the largest station program listing supplier
was who they refused.

SHF

Post by Stephen H. Fischer
...

Post by Alan
a large number of stations in the San Francisco Bay area are indicating an
offset of 15 seconds, and one or two are indicating 14 seconds. The correct
value is 16 seconds, which a few stations actually indicate.

...

Post by Alan
Alan

Hi,
Watch the time shown by KMTP.
It currently appears to be ~ 2 minutes fast when compared to the other
stations. I have seen it hours wrong as well as the date being wrong.
I have been bashing that station for many years and finally gave up
completely, it no longer was fun.
They REFUSED, yes REFUSED to even discuss the silly program listings they
were publishing. A monkey in the British museum could do a better job if
it was deaf and blind and had it's hands cut off.
They also changed from PST to PDT and back to PST on a unpredictable
schedule. They once got it right five weeks late and then went back to
wrong at years end.
They put a bid in for KCSM which was rejected as they were found to have
no money.
Most of their money comes from cable companies for carrying their programs.
Found in the bid documents for KCSM.
SHF

Now you make me want to watch that station just to see how bad it might be
:-)
Well, I do get it (satellite only). 480i 4:3, and looking at the guide, it
seems to be largely DW material. I assume that's Deutschewelle.
They didn't display the time while I was watching it...but while I was
there, I forgot to check whether the Weather Channel is available :-)
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

[m***@large]

For manually setting clocks around the house I like to use the clock
at http://time.is/. The display is big enough to see across the room.